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But don't you think the Living Magisterium is capable of deficient conduct, being deficient in the disciplines it promulgates, and even formulating doctrine deficiently?

Who are you to judge it is deficient?

I am a member of a very small club. I think we have been Blessed with amazing and brilliant Popes since Pope Pius XII. Since I have been alive, and I was alive during Pope Pius XII's Papacy, I have witnessed the collapse and corruption of virtually every institution. That collapse and corruption has been worldwide, massive and stunning. The ONLY institution which hasn't collapsed or corrupted is Holy Mother Church.

I have a challenge for those who label themselves "traditionalist." Please ping others who call themselves traditionalists. I can't remember all who label themselves such.

Here is my challenge.

Cite TRADITION and illustrate where in TRADITION we are encouraged or admonished to mark ourselves with a distinguishing adjective modifying Catholic

I have read not a few books and I have NEVER seen that in TRADITION So, please tell me, sourcing any justification for identifying yourself in that manner.

I don't think you can find it. In fact, labelling yourselves that is a novelty. It is a modern habit. I consider it prideful.

Now, y'all may be smart (and most of you are that) and y'all may be holy (no doubt much more closer to our Triune God than am I) but I find absolutely no justification for the label which, it appears to me, is meant to distinguish you from your Christian Catholic brothers and sisters as one who is more knowledgeble, thoughtful, and acting in union with all developments of Doctrine except that which has occured since 1958.

I looked at newadvent.com this morning. Traditionalists aren't there. However, Look up Traditionalism You ain't that.

I researched a few books I have in my library.

I don't find "traditionalists" in Scripture by Topic.

I don't find traditionalists in Faith of the Early Fathers

I don't find traditionalists in Catechism of the Catholic Church

I don't find traditionalists in Roman Catechism

I don't find traditionalists in the Catechism of Aquinas

I don't find traditionalists in the Catechism of Pope Pius X

I don't find traditionalists in The Liturgical Year

I don't find traditionalists in Sheed and Ward's Catholic Evidence

I don't find traditionalists in The City of God

I don't find traditionalists in Jungmann's The Mass of the Roman Rite

I don't find traditionalists in Fr. Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary

I don't find traditionalists in Fr. Lasance's The New Roman Missal

I don't find traditionalists in Rumble and Carty's Radio Replies

I don't find traditionalists in Ott's Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma

I don't find traditionalists in Scriptual References for the Baltimore Catechism

I don't find traditionalists in Precis of Official Catholic Teaching

I don't find traditionalists in Dom Orchard's A Catholic Commentary on Scripture

I don't find traditionalists in Douay Rheims

I don't find traditionalists in The Navarre Bible

I don't find traditionalists in Neuner and Dupuis' The Christian Faith

I don't find traditionalists in Denziger's The Sources of Catholic Dogma

I don't find tradtionalists in Butler's Lives of the Saint's

I don't find traditionalists in Warren Carroll's A History of Christendom

I don't find traditionalists in Catena Aurea

I don't find traditionalists in The Summa

I dont' find traditionalists in Farrell's Companion to the Suma

I don't find tradtionalists in Dogmatic Canons and Decrees (Trent, Vatican I, Decree on Immaculate Conception, Syllabus of errors)

I don't find traditionalists in ...well, there is no need for me to go through my entire private library. It simply isn't there.

What IS there are condemnations of Traditionalism. There is the June 1855 Decree of the S.C. against False Traditionalism (against Augustine Bonnety) (souces of Catholic Dogma) and condemnations against Fideism, Traditionalism, Rationalism (The Christian Faith), condemnations against Traditonalism (Catholic Encyclopedia at newadvent.com) and I could go on and on and on.

What does NOT come from Tradition is the novelty of laymen labelling themselves traditionalists and, presumptively, thinking themselves as above or seperated from all us other clowns who are merely Catholic.

As the previous Pope Benedict taught

Pope Benedict XV Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum

22. The success of every society of men, for whatever purpose it is formed, is bound up with the harmony of the members in the interests of the common cause. Hence We must devote Our earnest endeavours to appease dissension and strife, of whatever character, amongst Catholics, and to prevent new dissensions arising, so that there may be unity of ideas and of action amongst all. The enemies of God and of the Church are perfectly well aware that any internal quarrel amongst Catholics is a real victory for them. Hence it is their usual practice when they see Catholics strongly united, to endeavour by cleverly sowing the seeds of discord, to break up that union. And would that the result had not frequently justified their hopes, to the great detriment of the interests of religion! Hence, therefore, whenever legitimate authority has once given a clear command, let no one transgress that command, because it does not happen to commend itself to him; but let each one subject his own opinion to the authority of him who is his superior, and obey him as a matter of conscience. Again, let no private individual, whether in books or in the press, or in public speeches, take upon himself the position of an authoritative teacher in the Church. All know to whom the teaching authority of the Church has been given by God: he, then, possesses a perfect right to speak as he wishes and when he thinks it opportune. The duty of others is to hearken to him reverently when he speaks and to carry out what he says.

23. As regards matters in which without harm to faith or discipline-in the absence of any authoritative intervention of the Apostolic See- there is room for divergent opinions, it is clearly the right of everyone to express and defend his own opinion. But in such discussions no expressions should be used which might constitute serious breaches of charity; let each one freely defend his own opinion, but let it be done with due moderation, so that no one should consider himself entitled to affix on those who merely do not agree with his ideas the stigma of disloyalty to faith or to discipline.

24. It is, moreover, Our will that Catholics should abstain from certain appellations which have recently been brought into use to distinguish one group of Catholics from another. They are to be avoided not only as "profane novelties of words," out of harmony with both truth and justice, but also because they give rise to great trouble and confusion among Catholics. Such is the nature of Catholicism that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole or as a whole rejected: "This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly; he cannot be saved" (Athanas. Creed). There is no need of adding any qualifying terms to the profession of Catholicism: it is quite enough for each one to proclaim "Christian is my name and Catholic my surname," only let him endeavour to be in reality what he calls himself.

This is TRADITION

Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions

83 The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus' teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological, disciplinary, liturgical or devotional traditions, born in the local churches over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition, these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the guidance of the Church's Magisterium.

This is TRADITION

I. THE CHURCH IS ONE

"The sacred mystery of the Church's unity" (UR 2)

813 The Church is one because of her source: "the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit."259 The Church is one because of her founder: for "the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross, . . . restoring the unity of all in one people and one body."260 The Church is one because of her "soul": "It is the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church, who brings about that wonderful communion of the faithful and joins them together so intimately in Christ that he is the principle of the Church's unity."261 Unity is of the essence of the Church:

What an astonishing mystery! There is one Father of the universe, one Logos of the universe, and also one Holy Spirit, everywhere one and the same; there is also one virgin become mother, and I should like to call her "Church."262

814 From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them. Within the unity of the People of God, a multiplicity of peoples and cultures is gathered together. Among the Church's members, there are different gifts, offices, conditions, and ways of life. "Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions."263 The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity. Yet sin and the burden of its consequences constantly threaten the gift of unity. And so the Apostle has to exhort Christians to "maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."264

815 What are these bonds of unity? Above all, charity "binds everything together in perfect harmony."265 But the unity of the pilgrim Church is also assured by visible bonds of communion:

- profession of one faith received from the Apostles;

-common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments;

- apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God's family.

end of quote

That is it. Simple. We are Catholics and Catholics must maintain the Bonds of Unity in Worship, Doctrine, Authority. Period. Y'all can't find a single Catechism ever printed which teaches otherwise.

It should be noted that EVERY Christian who maintains these bonds is, axiomatically, a TRADITIONALIST. It is UNNECESSARY to qualify one as such because it is acknowleged, by real Christians, that it is the Living Magisterium which decides what is and isn't Tradition and tradition - not some laymen.

Now, I will grant you that y'll are smarter than me; I will grant y'all are better and more deeply read in Liturgical History, Ecclesiastical History, Ecclesiology, Dogmatic Theology, Speculatiave Theology etc etc but y'all are no better than the simple Catholic who prays, pays and obeys and y'all are, without question, unqualified, materially, spiritually and experientally, to judge the Popes since 1958 nor to judge any decisions taken by the Magisterium.

We are ALL every bit as much the creatures of this age which you say has infected and corrupted the Living Magisterium. So, it appears the, unstated, axiom is Holy Mother Church, established by Jesus, who sent the Holy Spirit upon it to Teach it all truth, has become infected and corrupted by liberalism, modernism and who-the-heck-knows-what-else but those who label themseves traditionalists have escaped the age pristine, pure, holy and whose thoughts are pellucid and perfect and whose apprehension of everything is untainted, if not afflatic.

The Popes since the death of Pius XII have ALL been highly educated, highly intelliigent, and guided by the Holy Spirit.

Whereas I ain't. Now, y'all may think you have the intellect, education, and experience, to oppose Holy Mother Church etc but you, like me, are simple laymen. You have no authority. I have no authority. Thank God.

In my opinion, y'all are rapidly rushing (you're almost there) to catch-up with the 16th century schismatics. Whereas those folks sifted Holy Writ and wrestled with it to their own destruction and used private judgement to oppose the Living Magisterium, y'all sift encyclicals, manuals, catechisms, conciliar texts, and use personal opinion to oppose the Living Magisterium. It is, in my opinion, simply protestantism recast as "tradition.

I want to end by stating, quite seriously, I admire nearly all of you a great deal. There is no doubt that those I pinged (and those I forgot to ping) are very bright and very well read. But there isn't one among you 1/100th as well educated, trained and experienced as any Pope since 1958.

So, I await your responses illustrating, from Tradition where we are told to mark ourselves as some brand of special Christian Catholic. I want a source from Tradition which grants us laymen authority to oppose decisions taken by the Living Magisterium. I want citations, not personal opinions; including the personal opinons of Saints whose ideas never were accepted as part of the Living Magisterium.

I expect Documentation from The Bible, from any Document from any Ecumenical Council, from any Papal Encyclical, from any Papal Allocution.