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To: GOPmember
Based on the Conciliar passages you've quoted, I get the impression that you're agruing in favor of the Tridentine Mass rather than against it.

You missed my point. I'll repeat it. There is no purity in the past to which we can return. As the Council of Trent noted, even the "mass of all time" was rife with abuses, simonical taint, superstition, commotion, worldy music etc etc.

I am happy you have access to the FSSP. I used to go to the Indult my ownself.

So, does the FSSP promote or sell this video? If not, why not? If you don't know, will you please ask your FSSP priest his opinion of the video and tell us his response?

For the record, I am in favor of anything the Living Magisterium permits,promotes etc, incluidng the Indult. I prefer the Pauline Rite myself.

25 posted on 06/04/2005 12:06:59 PM PDT by bornacatholic (It must be tough being a traditionalist what with all the correcting of HM Church it demands)
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To: bornacatholic
I don't doubt that abuses existed in the past. The selling of indulgences immediately comes to mind. But, I find it ironic that nearly all of the abuses your quotes describe run rampant in so many Novus Ordo parishes, yet are completely absent in the Tridentine.

Am I arguing that the past is better only because it is old? No.

I am arguing that there is a reverency, beauty, and consistency inherent to the Tridentene Mass that shaprly contrasts with the hand holding, hugging, applause, irreverent music (complete with drums and guitars), and the "never know what to expect this week" elements that I grew up with in (and which subsequently drove me away from) the N.O. Mass.

So, does the FSSP promote or sell this video? If not, why not? If you don't know, will you please ask your FSSP priest his opinion of the video and tell us his response?

I'm not aware that the FSSP promotes this video. I'll ask father about it the next time I get a chance. I suspect that you are waiting for me no reply "no" (which I believe is probably the answer), which you'll likey then use to further your attempts at discounting this film which you've admitted you will never watch.

Please don't get me wrong. I understand your desire to not promote fringe groups and ideas that are in conflict with Rome. But, I'm not sure that the vast majority of information in this movie is so out of line. If I'm wrong, I'd be interested in hearing the arguments against it. But, you've rejected it outright without even seeing it.

30 posted on 06/04/2005 12:38:35 PM PDT by GOPmember
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To: bornacatholic

Your first paragraph is historically incorrect. The Tridentine Mass was codified AFTER the Council of Trent. In reference to the worldy music you mention, the problem was in the melodies that were employed at the time for liturgical use. Many of these were secular songs with liturgical texts set to them. Also, it seems, from reading some history of Palestrina's time, that there was a problem with the music being so polyphonic and elaborate, that words tended to be obscured by the music.

But on to the point of the "traveling" FSSP priest. I think a couple of weeks ago you kept posting the canon from the Council of Trent regarding priests celebrating outside their dioceses, etc... Does that mean the the FSSP is ipso facto censured?


38 posted on 06/05/2005 7:35:57 AM PDT by CouncilofTrent (Quo Primum...)
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