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To: bornacatholic

"*The word is IF. Because the Council did not address, or footnote, examples, presumably none exist."

Then, why would the Council suggest they could exist? They obviously hadn't read the "bornacatholic manual of pseudo-theology" which says they couldn't exist.

"If they did or do exist, it is only the MAgisterium, not you, who has the authority to clear-up any deficiencies"

But if its the same Magisterium which created the deficiencies in the first place, then how could they be relied on to clear them up without any deficiencies?

"DEFICIENCES ARE NOT ERRORS" - Really! So now you're basing your faith in the conciliar Magisterium on the basis of semantics like "If" and whether "deficiency" is or is not "error"? You really are starting to get a little desperate, aren't you?

"In fact, you appear, to me anyways, to delight in thinking the Living Magisterium errs."

Not at all, I am just saying that you are being unfaithful to the conciliar Magisterium by your never-ending protestations that it can never err. You obviously reject the Magisterium, because it says it can err.

In fact the Magisterium has not only said that there is deficient formulation of doctrine in the documents of Vatican II, but the Magisterium has even said that there are heresies like Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism in some of Vatican II's teaching.

But I suppose you know better than the Magisterium because you're more Catholic than the Magisterium, aren't you?


128 posted on 06/10/2005 12:59:05 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Tantumergo
If it is the position of the Sola Traditio crowd that deficency is a synonym of error and we cannot rely upon the Magisterium you inhabit a contradictory world in which Tradtion both teaches the Magisterium is infallible and erroneous. As far as I can understand you (and I can't understand you for more than a millimeter or so) that renders absurd Jesus' admonition

He who hears you hears me

As this is going nowhere, you can, as O'Reilly says, have the last word.

130 posted on 06/10/2005 1:20:32 PM PDT by bornacatholic (It must be tough being a traditionalist what with all the correcting of HM Church it demands)
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To: Tantumergo
Lumen Gentium

12. The holy people of God shares also in Christ's prophetic office; it spreads abroad a living witness to Him, especially by means of a life of faith and charity and by offering to God a sacrifice of praise, the tribute of lips which give praise to His name.(110) The entire body of the faithful, anointed as they are by the Holy One,(111) cannot err in matters of belief. They manifest this special property by means of the whole peoples' supernatural discernment in matters of faith when "from the Bishops down to the last of the lay faithful" (8*) they show universal agreement in matters of faith and morals. That discernment in matters of faith is aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth. It is exercised under the guidance of the sacred teaching authority, in faithful and respectful obedience to which the people of God accepts that which is not just the word of men but truly the word of God.(112) Through it, the people of God adheres unwaveringly to the faith given once and for all to the saints,(113) penetrates it more deeply with right thinking, and applies it more fully in its life.

end of quote

The Magisterium, the Magisterum Teaches, can't err.

138 posted on 06/11/2005 5:11:58 AM PDT by bornacatholic (I am blessed to have lived under great modern Popes. Thanks be to God.)
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To: Tantumergo
THE OATH AGAINST MODERNISM

Given by His Holiness St. Pius X September 1, 1910. To be sworn to by all clergy, pastors, confessors, preachers, religious superiors, and professors in philosophical-theological seminaries.

I . . . . firmly embrace and accept each and every definition that has been set forth and declared by the unerring teaching authority of the Church...

*Tantumergo. Your "tradionalism" is tainted by Modernism...

And the errors of Luther condemned by Pope Leo X in 1520

28. 28. If the pope with a great part of the Church thought so and so, he would not err; still it is not a sin or heresy to think the contrary, especially in a matter not necessary for salvation, until one alternative is condemned and another approved by a general Council. 29. A way has been made for us for weakening the authority of councils, and for freely contradicting their actions, and judging their decrees, and boldly confessing whatever seems true, whether it has been approved or disapproved by any council whatsoever

140 posted on 06/11/2005 6:01:46 AM PDT by bornacatholic (I am blessed to have lived under great modern Popes. Thanks be to God.)
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