[Romulus]

The Catholic Encyclopedia has an interesting article on hymns. According to St. Augustine's definition, Schubert's "Ave Maria" qualifies as a hymn, "But we have long understood by hymnus a song whose sequence of words is ruled by metre or rhythm, with or without rhyme, or, at least, by a symmetrical arrangement of the stanzas." And surely in modern times, the hymn is understood as being intended for choral or indeed congregational singing. "Ave Maria" is a musical setting of a prayer; it has no meter or stanzas, and it certainly doesn't lend itself to congregational participation. So IMHO, it's not a hymn.

[sempertrad]

And surely in modern times, the hymn is understood as being intended for choral or indeed congregational singing.

Strictly speaking for myself I never thought that a hymn was a hymn if only the congregation or choir could sing it; but rather a reverent, completely Catholic, song of praise. I happen to think that Ave Maria should be sung if there is a good soloist available. It wouldn't kill the rest of the choir or congregation to be silent for a few minutes. :-)

(In the more progressive parishes where the majority of the congregation supports women's ordination, I wonder if they call hymns hyrms? In parishes that use inclusive language, maybe they call hymns themns? :-D )

[annalex]

Like much church art, Schubert's Ave Maria is too pretty to be used liturgically, -- it is so musically rich, one forgets the subject matter. Also, it is not exactly the Ave Maria prayer, as "Maria gratia plena" is repeated several times.

Anyway, for Askel's encouragement, I have a limerick about that.

Schumann was a poor roommate of Schubert
Schubert once had to ask, -- where's my shoe, Bert?
To which Schumann replied
-- Why, I cooked it all night
I don't see how a shoe in a soup hurt

[eastsider]

Please forgive the post and run, but you're absolutely right, Schubert's "Ave Maria" is a song, not a hymn.