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To: csbyrnes84; Canticle_of_Deborah
Many more embarrassing (but necessary) questions...

What exactly is a "veil"? Is it a scarf that you put on your head? Why is this done? Why don't they say "Amen" at Communion? Does everyone kneel at the Communion rail?

155 posted on 06/02/2005 9:30:19 PM PDT by GipperGal
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To: GipperGal

Well here's the scoop, I'm surprised no one more qualified to answer these questions is doing so (i.e. a women), but I'll try my best.

A veil is a mantilla. Its a head covering that Catholic women traditionally wear. Here is a web page showing the 2 most common types of veils. The one on the left is more modern 1950s/1960s style while the one on the right is more traditional. You'll usually see a mix of the two styles at traditional chapels.

http://www.ocdsrose.com/chapel_caps.htm

Women can also just wear a hat instead of the veil, but many just prefer the veil I guess.

Why isn't Amen said? Its because the Priest when he distributes communion says the Amen for you. "Corpus Domini nostri Jesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeternam. Amen" "May the Body of our Lord Jesus Christ preserve thy soul unto life everlasting. Amen." So there is no need for you to say Amen. All of the Eastern Rite masses I've ever attendend (Ukranian, Armenian, Melkite, Syro-Malankar) similarly don't require you to say Amen either. Its only Novus Ordo where people say Amen for commmunion.

Everyone kneels for communion and receives on the tongue. Every once in a while you'll see somebody standing for commmunion and thats because they have bad knees. So unless you have a medical problem which prevents you from kneeling you have to kneel at the altar rail to receive communion.


160 posted on 06/02/2005 9:55:03 PM PDT by csbyrnes84
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To: GipperGal

"What exactly is a "veil"? Is it a scarf that you put on your head? Why is this done?"

----

This is a good source for chapel veils, mantillas, etc. Those things including hats qualify as head coverings for Church. http://www.halo-works.com/shopping/veils.html You can browse through the site and get a sense for what we're talking about.

The Apologia site is an excellent resource on all things traditional. http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/index.html

On this page she gives a very good explanation as to why we wear veils. I'll excerpt some of it below.

http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/theveil.html





Now, think of what else was veiled in the Old Testament -- the Holy of Holies!

Hebrews 9:1-8
The former [Old Covenant] indeed had also justifications of divine service and a sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made the first, wherein were the candlesticks and the table and the setting forth of loaves, which is called the Holy. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies: Having a golden censer and the ark of the testament covered about on every part with gold, in which was a golden pot that had manna and the rod of Aaron that had blossomed and the tables of the testament. And over it were the cherubims of glory overshadowing the propitiatory: of which it is not needful to speak now particularly. Now these things being thus ordered, into the first tabernacle, the priests indeed always entered, accomplishing the offices of sacrifices. But into the second, the high priest alone, once a year: not without blood, which he offereth for his own and the people's ignorance: The Holy Ghost signifying this: That the way into the Holies was not yet made manifest, whilst the former tabernacle was yet standing.

...The Ark of the Old Covenant was kept in the veiled Holy of Holies. And at Mass, what is kept veiled until the Offertory? The Chalice -- the vessel that holds the Precious Blood! And, between Masses, what is veiled? The Ciborium in the Tabernacle, the vessel which holds the very Body of Christ. These vessels of life are veiled because they are holy!

And who is veiled? Who is the All Holy, the Ark of the New Covenant, the Vessel of the True Life? Our Lady -- and by wearing the veil, we imitate her and affirm ourselves as women, as vessels of life.




Personally, I like this approach the best. I have to admit the veil was the most difficult part of my conversion to tradition. I'm not married, and I've had to take care of myself most of my life, so the whole obedience/submission thing was off putting. Now I approach it as more of a recognition of natural order, as in separate but equal. The Ark of the Covenant analogy was what finally convinced me. I would like to see this concept developed further because I think that's the way to go when discussing the subject with women in the modern world.


165 posted on 06/03/2005 12:28:01 AM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: GipperGal
What exactly is a "veil"? Is it a scarf that you put on your head? Why is this done?

A couple of people have posted links to mantillas; IIRC, the mantilla came in during the 60s. In the 50s, women typically wore hats to be "dressy" -- check out some old I Love Lucy reruns! Some women and girls used to wear a silk scarf -- a square one folded into a triangle and tied under the chin; this was discouraged by the nuns. (Jackie Kennedy was shown going into church like that one Sunday, and there was an uproar!)

The reason for head covering was attributed to St. Paul -- I don't have the reference handy, but he said a woman's head should be covered, because "a woman's hair is her glory" (and would be a distraction to men).

There were abuses in the old days too -- for a "visit" (churches used to be unlocked during the day, and you could stop in and light a candle, say a prayer), some -- esp. high school girls -- would bobby pin a kleenex to their heads!

167 posted on 06/03/2005 1:07:03 AM PDT by maryz
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To: GipperGal

I wear various kinds of head covering, depending on where I am.

When I go to my regular parish for Mass, I usually wear a chapel cap, which looks a whole lot like a black doilie. (On Easter Sunday, I wear the one and only hat that ever looked nice on me.)

If I am at an FSSP chapel, I switch over to the longer chapel veil.

As for WHY I do it...well, I do it to show that I really believe in Jesus' presence at Mass. I do it to remind myself to be reverent. I even do it because my mother did it before me, my grandmother before her, and her mother before that.

For a period of time (during college), I did not wear a head covering to church because I felt funny about being the only one. As I got older, I realized that wasn't a good enough reason and I started wearing it again.

I get some ladies asking where I got the veils, I get some people laughing at me, and I even get some truly scathing sarcasm directed at me (yes, even from some of the clergy).

But I'm doing what I think is right, and I'm teaching my kids that even if some people make fun of you, you should ALWAYS try to do what's right.

Regards,


169 posted on 06/03/2005 3:12:04 AM PDT by VermiciousKnid
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