“Remember, no scripture is to be understood outside of the context of scripture”
And where is this rule in scripture? This is a tradition of man.
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“there should be other scripture which says the same thing”
So, your rule for interpretation of Scripture says if it not said twice, it should be ignored?
Again, where is this rule in Scripture? This is a tradition of man.
We were warned against people making their own interpretation of Scripture, as you are doing right here --
“Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.” 2Peter 1:20-21
“And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.” 3:15–16
You refuse to accept the plain language of scripture, because “there are some things hard to understand.”
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“I would assert that we cannot gain spiritual life by physical means ...”
So Christ becoming a physical being was a waste of time? Oh, you mean every physical means except Christ. And that belief is found where in Scripture? Can you not see the similarity between Christ becoming a physical being and His creating the physical Eucharist for us physical beings? It is so clear when you listen to the literal words of scripture without your traditions.
You argue, “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life." You say this means that eating the real flesh of Christ is a waste of time. But does this make sense?
Are we to understand that Christ had just commanded his disciples to eat his flesh, then say their doing so would be pointless? Is that what "the flesh is of no avail" means? "Eat my flesh, but it’s a waste of time" No. The literal words mean exactly what they say.
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“When you discover other scripture (outside of John 6)”
You honestly believe we can ignore the words of Christ? Once isn’t enough for you?
Well, 1 Corinthians is pretty clear:
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
Everything preceding “the Lord's body” is speaking about the Lord. “In verse 27, it reads “shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord”. This is followed two lines later to the “damnation” for not discerning the Lord's body.
But, of course, you ignore the clear language and come up with the interpretation that this refers to the Church. If your interpretation is correct, the literal reading is that you eat and drink damnation by eating the Eucharist with your eyes closed (not perceiving the Church.) Your interpretation makes no sense.
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“The NT is replete with (many) scriptures which affirm that God's grace + our belief are the keys to our salvation.”
Here are some of the things that Scripture says are necessary for eternal life, that you also need to ignore to support your beliefs:
•Jesus declared: ‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)." (Not everyone who believes will have eternal life)
•“Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" … If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.' "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?" Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.” Mat 19:16-22 (Keeping the commandments and forsaking those worldly possessions you love is a requirement for eternal life)
•“Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? … See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” James 2: 20,24 (Something useless - Faith without works – will not get you eternal life)
•Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. (Water baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit is required to get into heaven)
•"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life" (Rom. 6:3–4). (Being baptized is required to walk in the new life)
•"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56). (Unless you eat the flesh of Christ you have no eternal life)
But somehow, your traditions say grace and belief are all you need. It is so easy when you choose to ignore the actual words of Christ and the scripture.
•"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56). (Unless you eat the flesh of Christ you have no eternal life)
But somehow, your traditions say grace and belief are all you need. It is so easy when you choose to ignore the actual words of Christ and the scripture.
I haven't ignored the words of Jesus (and I think you know that). ...
I, simply, interpret these words of Jesus (concerning the offering of His body and blood)spiritually ... while you interpret them physically.
And this isn't my 'private' interpretation. There is an entire christian tradition which interprets them the exact way that I do.
“I would assert that we cannot gain spiritual life by physical means ...”
So Christ becoming a physical being was a waste of time? Oh, you mean every physical means except Christ. And that belief is found where in Scripture? Can you not see the similarity between Christ becoming a physical being and His creating the physical Eucharist for us physical beings?
It is Jesus, Himself, Who said ... "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, ... and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Jesus sets the context for us.
Jesus also said, ...John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.I contend that our new life in Christ is a life which is more of the spirit and less of the flesh.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.You are attempting to prove your points with erroneous absolutes. You speak as if everything in the gospel of John (or in all the writings of scripture, for that matter) ... should be interpreted literally and physically ... when even your own tradition does not do so.
...
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
You have disdained (at times ... yet promoted vigorously, at others) the supporting of one's interpretation of scripture with the context of the surrounding passage.
In your zeal, you have attributed sayings to me that I have not said. Fully half of your posting is concerned with issues upon which I have not commented.
I have attempted to have a nuanced and honest discussion of the issue of the Lord's Supper/Eucharist.
One final point ...
“The NT is replete with (many) scriptures which affirm that God's grace + our belief are the keys to our salvation.”
•Jesus declared: ‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)." (Not everyone who believes will have eternal life)
Not everyone who say to the Master "Lord, Lord" ... is a believer ... remember Judas ...Matthew 26:25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.
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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.