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To: Quester

“Did Adam and Eve fall because of the effects of the eating of the fruit of the tree ... or because they disobeyed God?”

Great example, but it doesn’t help your case. It is amazing how the entire scripture works together.

Eating of the fruit or disobeying? This is not an either- or thing. They cannot be separated.

The angels are spirit, and fell because of disobedience. Nothing physical involved.

Adam and Eve fell because of disobedience. They lost eternal life because of a physical act – eating the fruit. Christ later told us that we gain eternal life by a physical act - eating the physical bread turned into the flesh of the Lord. This example shows how God, because we are physical beings, uses physical things to impart His grace and life. Like water in baptism. Like bread. Like wine.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).

They are the literal words of Christ. He could have chosen to have a completly symbolic way to eternal life, but He did not. I don't know why He did it the way he did, but He did what He did and said what He said. He told us all the things necessary for eternal life. Baptism. Faith. Works. Eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ. Scripture says so. They are all different. They are all necessary.


294 posted on 06/12/2005 11:37:49 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Choose life!)
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To: FatherofFive
Adam and Eve fell because of disobedience. They lost eternal life because of a physical act – eating the fruit. Christ later told us that we gain eternal life by a physical act - eating the physical bread turned into the flesh of the Lord. This example shows how God, because we are physical beings, uses physical things to impart His grace and life. Like water in baptism. Like bread. Like wine.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).

They are the literal words of Christ. He could have chosen to have a completly symbolic way to eternal life, but He did not. I don't know why He did it the way he did, but He did what He did and said what He said. He told us all the things necessary for eternal life. Baptism. Faith. Works. Eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ. Scripture says so. They are all different. They are all necessary.


I would assert that we cannot gain spiritual life by physical means ...
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Throughout the gospel of John it is stated that we gain salvation through non-physical means (i.e. God's grace + our belief).

In an attempt to honestly determine whether Jesus' words concerning the offering of His body and blood are to be understood "within the physical realm" ... or "within the spiritual realm", ... I would susggest that you attempt to search for other scripture which supports that view. Remember, no scripture is to be understood outside of the context of scripture. So, if Jesus means that we are to physically consume His physical body and blood to attain our spiritual life, ... there should be other scripture which says the same thing.

The NT is replete with (many) scriptures which affirm that God's grace + our belief are the keys to our salvation.

When you discover other scripture (outside of John 6) ... which appears to say that we must physically consume Jesus' body and blood to gain spiritual life, send me a ping.

295 posted on 06/12/2005 12:55:13 PM PDT by Quester (When in doubt ... trust God!)
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