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To: gbcdoj

" Origen also knew Greek and he interpreted it otherwise."

You know, I've always rather liked Origen, his condemnation by the Church to the contrary notwithstanding. One of the reasons I like him is that he was often quite frank about the fact that he didn't "know" something or was simply speculating. For that reason, though I appreciate him, I'm always a bit hesitant about using him as authority for much.

"You wouldn't happen to know if any of the other Greek Fathers besides Chrysostom and Origen comment on the passage?"

I did a quick search of what I have here and on the internet and find nothing but we have a very complete set of the Fathers up at the Church. I can't get there during the week. My court schedule is pretty heavy the next three days but perhaps Sunday after Liturgy I can hit the books if I don't forget! :)


414 posted on 06/08/2005 4:04:01 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
You know, I've always rather liked Origen, his condemnation by the Church to the contrary notwithstanding.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with an Orthodox cleric who was very influential on me during my early days as an Orthodox Christian. I said something disparaging about Origen in a letter to him, basically saying that if Origen said it, it must be wrong.

His reply astounded me, but changed the entire way I approached Origen. He said, "Origen was the heretic of heretics -- but he was also the father of fathers." I asked my godfather, who is a patristics scholar about this, and he likewise responded "if you don't understand Origen, you won't understand any of the fathers."

This from a man who was fully capable of detailing, ad infinitum, the errors of Origen. Origen was one of the greatest minds in the history of the Church. If you read his reply to Africanus about the historicity of the passage of Daniel and Susanna, you taste of the brilliance of his Biblical knowledge and penetrating mind.

Origen had, in some ways, the great misfortune of being the first great mind to struggle, (ultimately unsuccessfully,) with the interaction of classical (pagan) philosophy and Christian (i.e. Hebrew) thought. He articulated the first "hellenization of the Gospel," and that hellenization was roundly rejected by the Church. One could say, however, that only someone like Origen, with his deep love for Christ and his unparalleled brilliance, could have forced the other fathers of the Church produce this rejection that went on to be much of the groundwork for how we articulate our faith.

In many ways he anticipated the errors of the second hellenization that resulted from another father's attempt to integrate Christianity with pagan philosophy, but that is another story.

415 posted on 06/08/2005 4:50:41 AM PDT by Agrarian
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