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To: biblewonk
the verse about Christian men becoming priests.

I believe I gave a tangential answer in #154 where I made reference to the indirect scriptural foundation of priestly celibacy. This question of yours, -- not Why celibacy?, but Why priests? -- is larger in scope and not really on topic. But this is an outline.

A priest is one who offers sacrifice to God. The separate caste of priests that succeed one another in history is, of course, plain Old Testament. Christ made the perfect sacrifice of Himself and thus fulfilled the task of Old Testament priests once and for all.

His will was, however, that His sacrifice be perpetuated in time through the sacrifice of the Eucharist. The bread and the wine become again and again His body and blood. He told us to do so in memory of Him. He also ordained that the Eucharist is His body and blood "indeed" (John 6). Therefore, the Eucharist is sacrifice indeed. A sacrifice requires a priest. So we have priests.

The sacrifice of Calvary was offered by Jesus himself. The sacrifice of the Eucharist is offered by a priest. So, if the Eucharist is Christ's body, then the priest offering the sarifice is doing so in the stead of Christ Himself. Form here we can proceed to the teaching of priest being the bridegroom of the Church, and therefore owing fidelity to the Church, but I already covered that ground.

At the time of Christ's ministry on earth the world contained four groups of people: Christ Himself; the Tweleve Apostles; the other disciples; the Christian believers; and unbelievers. We know that the discipleship was fluid; many, for example, apostasized refusing to accept the mystery of the Eucharist (John 6 again). But the corps of the apostles was fixed, despite their temptations and weaknesses of faith. They received the Holy Ghost from Christ at Pentecost. When Judas apostasized, the eleven elected Mathias to replace him. In Acts and in 2 Timpthy we read of the laying of hands that was a ritual transferring priestly power. This is the sacrament of Ordination. Those ordained receive priesthood directly from the bishop, who is a successor of the Apostles.

This system: bishops succeeding the Apostles and ordaining priests, -- was not seriously challenged until Reformation. Note that in this case we are talking not simply of some orally transmitted theology, but of the very fabric of the early Church. If Christ really taught priesthood of all believers and not a distinct caste of priests, such usurpation of power would have been challenged in the 1st century rather than in the 16 century.

I am sure you can look up the requisite verses yourself.

I am not inclined to morph the thread about priestly celibacy into a general discussion of the scriptural and historical foundation of Christian priesthood, so my future responses to this will be limited. Feel free to bring this up again though, when the topic matches the issue better.

170 posted on 05/26/2005 7:56:59 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex
This question of yours, -- not Why celibacy?, but Why priests? -- is larger in scope and not really on topic. But this is an outline.

If that topic isn't in any way relevant, which it isn't, why did you bring it up on this thread?

171 posted on 05/26/2005 8:08:14 PM PDT by vox_freedom (Fear no evil)
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To: annalex

Well I appreciate your taking the time to explain why you think there is a priesthood of any sort that pertains to Christianity. But you did not show me where the bible says there should be such a thing. Each verse you mention seems to lack any mention of sacrifice or eucharist or priest. So I'm still hoping to hear some scripture that establishes a priesthood for Christians and a sacrifice. In the breaking of bread you mention it says "do this in rememberance of me" and "as often as you do this you proclaim". But we don't even see the word sacrifice and we certainly are not given a priesthood.


177 posted on 05/27/2005 5:09:05 AM PDT by biblewonk (Socialism isn't all bad.)
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