Posted on 05/25/2005 10:35:49 PM PDT by sinkspur
THE leader of Scotland's Catholics has risked reigniting a row over married priests by predicting the Vatican will eventually relent and allow the practice.
Cardinal Keith O'Brien, the Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh, said the success of married deacons in the church means the change is likely.
The church leader has upset traditional Catholics in the past with his views on celibacy, homosexuality and the priesthood.
His latest comments were made in an interview with the Catholic Times, which will be published on Sunday,
Asked if he believed married priests will become a reality, he said: "Having seen something of the apostolate of married deacons, I can foresee the day when there will be married priests."
The Cardinal has angered conservative Catholics in the past with his acceptance of gay priests, as long as they remained celibate.
However, since being elevated to the College of Cardinals he has espoused views more in line with Vatican teachings. Cardinal O'Brien's latest comments drew criticism from the right-wing Catholic Truth movement.
A spokesman for the group said: "He is trying to say that he is not necessarily personally in favour of this but we can debate it. It's a sleekit way of trying to have his cake and eat it."
However, a poll of 80 Catholic priests in Scotland conducted only last month suggested 40 per cent believed they should be allowed to marry, but the issue remains thorny to many conservative Catholics.
Cardinal O'Brien gained a reputation as a liberal after he said in 2002, before he became a cardinal, that he saw no end to theological argument against celibacy within the priesthood.
A day later he issued a joint statement with Mario Conti, the archbishop of Glasgow, in which the pair said: "While no-one would suggest clerical celibacy is an unchangeable discipline, we believe it has an enormous value."
The following year he risked angering conservatives again when he broached the subject of married priests.
He said in a thanksgiving mass that the church should have "at every level" a discussion about clerical celibacy.
He said the argument for married priests was supported by the case of married Anglican priests who have converted to Catholicism and been allowed to continue their ministries.
However, at the ecclesiastical senate in Rome in October 2003, he made a statement at the end of the Nicene Creed in which he affirmed support of the church's teachings on celibacy, contraception and homosexuality.
It was claimed at the time, but denied, that the added words were said under pressure from the Vatican.
Since then the Cardinal has been careful not to speak out on any of the issues that caused so much controversy.
A spokesman for the Church said today that the Cardinal's comments were not incompatible with his profession of faith in 2003.
He said: "It is a neutral comment on the issue, it is neither a ringing endorsement of the concept, neither is it an outright denunciation."
I thought God Himself handed the KJV directly to Martin Luther.
sigh...If only you really cared or understood or had the faith to see the extreme significance of what the bible doesn't say. When the inspired scriptures "which cannot be broken" doesn't say something about, say, a Christian Priesthood, or Mass, or Mary being assumed into heaven and distributing all graces, then these things are simply not so.
If your response is that you are a registered Freeper and, as such, may post on any open thread, that is certainly true. When Catholics tell you what they think of your impudent buttinskiism, we too are registered Freepers and are also entitled to post on these threads, even the Catholic ones. Not only that but, of course, as to matters Catholic, we are right and you are not.
Hence, stick your nose in where it does not belong if you must suffer a terminal case of bad manners to go along with your demonstrated ignorance of the Roman Catholic Church. It will help Catholics to stir up our troops by reminding us of how very grateful to God we are that He sought fit that we not be as you are and give us the comfort of understanding how truly lightweight are those opponents who define themselves by their non-Catholicism as we define them by their ignorance and bad manners. It will give us opportunities to engage in entirely warranted sarcasm and expressions of well-deserved contempt in your direction and to practice polemics.
"If it were not for the Roman Catholic Church, you would not have a Bible." True: yesterday, today, tomorrow and forever. I am guessing that I posted that in response to being instructed by some "reformed" poster as to the "reformed" poster's self-imagined awesome insights on Scripture on a thread where the "reformation" is as utterly irrelevant as Buddhism or Hinduism would be.
Since you describe my responses to you as "whiny", I must have made another of my points. I don't like to be preached at and apparently you don't like to be preached at either. Of course, a thread on the ecclesiastical misbehavior of a Roman Catholic Cardinal qualifies as my parlor and not yours. If you don't like to be preached at on Catholic threads, get more lost than you already are. MYOB. Churchlady: Go to your room.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH no that can't be. Are you saying the Church has had this discipline for THAT long. Oh heavens what is a married //cough// deacon to do?
=^p
Unless and until you decide to abandon your variety of heresies, your errors are none of my business until you decide to instruct Catholics as to the imagined superiority of your heresies in whch case you ought to get a vigorous response from Catholics. NOT a Biblical debate club; not an ecumenical Kumbaya experience; not some phony make-believe acceptance of any possibility of you being right and the Catholic Church wrong (there is ABSOLUTELY no such possibility) on matters of dogma and doctrine. The response you earn andf deserve is rebuke.
You may well be a nice guy, a good neighbor, kind to your household pets, a de facto moral exemplar in practice if not belief, but you are simply NOT equipped to be instructing Catholics as to the Catholic Faith which is none of your business unless and until you surrender to it. God may well admit you to heaven in spite of it all but that does not mean that Catholics will owe you the time of day even there in listening to your notions as to our Faith.
If we want your opinions as to our Catholic Church to which you do not belong, we know where to ask but don't hold your breath.
Thanks, my lady!
God bless you and yours.
With each passing day, it's becoming more obvious that you like to hear yourself type and you think you're impressing your friends.
Yesterday, one of your friends mentioned how the "ignore button" works great for him. You might want to give it a try.
Meanwhile, I'll feel free to comment as I wish, especially when I stumble upon a proud RC trotting out the old, "If it weren't for us, you wouldn't have a Bible" line.
Now, if you still have a problem with how and where I entered this thread -- especially the conversation with you -- please do us all a favor and click the Report Abuse link on my offending post(s). I'd be curious to see whether that provides you with the satisfaction you seem to be craving.
Fr. Conchini has written extensively on the celibacy thing.
Between his work and Card. Stickler's (plus ongoing research from others) it's becoming clear that the intention of the Church was to require celibacy or continence from Day One.
Note the intervention from the Egyptian Bishop at Nice (above)--which may be the only reason the policy was not written finally at that time (325 AD.)
But in the XXI Century, sexual activity is viewed like breathing--a sine-qua-non of human existence.
Not for you to worry that I would complain about you to management. I have never done that as to anyone here. The more you post where you don't belong, the more we benefit from the exposure of your rudeness and your ignorance of the Catholic Faith.
Ummmm, as you say: "Everything posted in a public forum is fair game for any and all interested parties." That means yours too, buster. It is a charity to tell you to MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS and a justice to respond very negatively when you do not MYOB.
I also find it fascinating that when I (very rarely) post Scripture, the church ladies ignore the Scripture then whine about how very badly we awful Catholics treat them. Pooooooooooor babeeeeeeees!
I have strong traditionalist sympathies as long as traditionalism does not veer into a schism of its own, but I tend to go to Novus Ordo mass while avoiding abusive ones, in consideration for my family.
I used to post on libertarianism a lot, but now I think that the social issues are intractable and even irrelevant until the Christian culture is restored. Consequently, I primarily post on the religion forum these days.
LOL! (You're the one barking the "MYOB" order 'til you're blue in the face, and I'm the one who's alleged to be demanding obedience?! LOL!!!)
If you don't want to ignore my posts, no problem. I'm not demanding that you do. Just try to come to grips with the fact that I'm going to post wherever and whenever I wish. And, you are free to respond or ignore them as you wish. See how it works?
So, buy a clue already and lay off the "MYOB" nonsense. You're well beyond the point of looking silly.
You entered this thread, as did we all, after the article about the misbehaving Scottish Roman Catholic Cardinal was posted. It was none of your business then and none of your business now. I think I have posted about five times now to you that agree that you, as a registered Freeper, are entitled to post on such a thread and I am entitled to tell you it is none of your business. You don't display much cognitive capability in reading posts here, why should anyone imagine that you do a better job concocting your idiosyncratic manglings of Scripture?
I will ping whom I please. Do not make the mistaken assumption that I am allied with every one of the pinged who regard themselves as Catholic, many yes but not all. I am just inviting all of them to witness the spectacle of one such as you attacking the Roman Catholic Church. We Catholics can all use a little light entertainment which you provide in ample quantity.
If it were not for the Roman Catholic Church giving the Bible to the "reformed", you would not have a Bible to truncate and mangle. Understandably, the Luther-come-latelies resist history, now as ever.
First, I notice you seem to be trying to impress someone since you keep pinging so many people to whatever you type. Second, I don't ignore anyone who reads the bible, such is my respect for the bible.
Will newgeezer's persistent rude buttinski-ism succeed where neither Luther nor Calvin nor Zwingli nor Nero nor Julian the Apostate nor Hitler nor Stalin have succeeded in the past? Will Catholics well catechized in Catholicism collectively slap their foreheads and say" Why didn't I think of that?" in response to "reformed" "insights" on Scripture? Don't miss the next episode of newgeezer's pursuit of the immortality of his very own "Biblical" "insights". He can read and, dad gum, he got him one of them there Bible things. That makes newgeezer a theological expert in the precincts of invent-it-yourself "Christianity."
Oh, and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. It isn't as if you had anything to offer in a discussion of Catholicism.
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