Replies

Fine, then explain to me how a rational human being can reconcile DH with previous Papal Encyclicals? That should take a few months to a year.

Nope. It takes a real Christian one second.

He who hears you hears me.

You sound like a Liberal Traditionalist. I deal with them a lot. You are no diferent that a Liberal - except your liberalism is on the right.

Please inform me as to what a "liberal traditionalist" is?

*Certainly. A liberal is, in essence, one who decides for himself. He is his own authority and he will "obey" the Magisterium if what the Magisterium Teaches agrees with his own personal opinion. If the Magsterium teaches or takes decisions he opposes, he refuses to submit to the church. He is, in a word, self-centered and egotistical. He does not love the Church. In a word, he is a protestant of the left.

A Libertrad (a liberal traditionalist) is the "right" or "conservative" counterpoint to a Liberal. He too, in essence, is one who decides for himself. He is his own authority for what Tradition is. When the Magisterium takes decisions about ecclesiastical traditions he does not approve of, he wars against the Magisterium - publicly and relentlessly. When it is pointed out it is the Magisterium which decides what is and isn't Tradition, he will begin citing the personal oponions of this or that theologian, far-right polemicist, schismatic etc and he will attack the very Christian Church Jesus established insinuating, if not outright claiming, the Magisterium is untrustworthy, devious, deceptive, and intentionally destroying Tradition. His will must predominate. He will not submit to the Church. The Libertrad is, in a word, self-centered and egotistical. He does not love the Church. He judges the Church corrupt, schismatic, in error etc. It must be his personal opinion of what constitues Tradition which prevails. In a word, he is a protestant of the right

10 posted on 05/01/2005 7:48:35 AM PDT by bornacatholic (Libertrads. Following the anathematized to perdition.)

Well, we could start with Dignitatis Humanae and the willful destruction of the Catholic State in Western Europe. Would you like to discuss Dignitatis Humanae?

Actually, DH doesn't call for the destruction of the Catholic State.

Religious freedom, in turn, which men demand as necessary to fulfill their duty to worship God, has to do with immunity from coercion in civil society. Therefore it leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ. (DH §1)

Some Fathers affirm that the Declaration does not sufficiently show how our doctrine is not opposed to ecclesiastical documents up till the time of the Supreme Pontiff Leo XIII. As we said in the last relatio, this is a matter for future theological and historical studies to bring to light more fully. As regards the substance of the problem, the point should be made that, while the papal documents up to Leo XIII insisted more on the moral duty of public authorities towards the true religion, the recent Supreme Pontiffs, while retaining this doctrine, complement it by highlighting another duty of the same authorities, namely, that of observing the exigencies of the dignity of the human person in religious matters, as a necessary element of the common good. The text before you today recalls more clearly (see nos. 1 and 3) the duties of the public authority towards the true religion (officia potestatis publicae erga veram religionem); from which it is manifest that this part of the doctrine has not been overlooked. However, the special object of our Declaration is to clarify the second part of the doctrine of recent Supreme Pontiffs - that dealing with the rights and duties which emerge from a consideration of the dignity of the human person. (Acta Synodalia S. Conc. Vat. II, Vol. IV, Part VI, p. 719)

With that in mind, it should be no surprise to find that the Vatican still maintains the Catholicity of two states in current concordats:

The State, out of regard for the traditional Catholic sentiment of the Colombian nation, considers the Catholic, Apostolic and Roman religion as a fundamental element of the common good, and of the integral development of the national community.

In the name of the Most Holy Trinity ... The Catholic, Apostolic, Roman religion continues to be the religion of the Dominican Nation and will enjoy the rights and prerogatives which pertain to it in conformity with Divine Law and Canon Law.

Or to know that Paul VI affirmed that human law must be based on "the divine law, natural and positive" (Allocution of 24 September 1970).

Fine, then explain to me how a rational human being can reconcile DH with previous Papal Encyclicals?

current Vatican pronouncements on desirabilty of converting Jews to the faith.

Like this, perhaps?

NOTES on the correct way to present the Jews and Judaism in preaching and catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church
Jesus affirms (ibid. 10:16) that "there shall be one flock and one shepherd". Church and Judaism cannot then be seen as two parallel ways of salvation and the Church must witness to Christ as the Redeemer for all, "while maintaining the strictest respect for religious liberty in line with the teaching of the Second Vatican Council (Declaration Dignitatis Humanae)" (Guidelines and Suggestions, I).