Posted on 05/15/2005 10:33:10 AM PDT by Alouette
I came from a time when Jews were looked upon as the worst of the worst -- for having "killed" Jesus. Thankfully, at least officially, that attitude has changed (although there are still some pockets of Catholicism where anti-semitism is still practiced).
Pope John Paul II has set a precedent now for establishing and continually maintaining a relationship between Catholics and Jews. I am delighted this Pope will follow...as I'm sure his successors will.
"I wasn't aware that Jews worshipped the Holy Trinity, as the Church requires Catholics to do."
Now, just for clarity, I was NOT addressing in any way who or what Jews worshipped at the time of Christ, nor do I particularly care about who or what Jews worshipped at the time of Christ, nor am I interested in the least in a discussion who or what Jews worshipped at the time of Christ. Christ established His Church through Peter. It still exists today. It happens to be the one I belong to. It's not a branch of Judaism.
I'll make it simple. Would your answer be:
A. I don't have a problem with it.
B. I do have a problem with it.
C. Its not the same God.
Why would you have a problem worshipping the same God Jesus worshipped?
To which you responded:
I wasn't aware that Jews worshipped the Holy Trinity, as the Church requires Catholics to do.
Jesus did not worship a trinity. Jesus was a Jew; not a Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, Armenian Orthodox, or Missouri Synod Lutheran.
Sh'ma Yisrael is most certainly, "Hello! Wake up! Pay attention!". If you look in most siddurim, the Sh'ma is in a much larger font, to get the point across. :-)
God willing, we will never have a generation of liturgical revisionist translators who will insist on inserting *those* exact words into the Orthodox liturgical services on the pretext of being more understandable! :-)
Very interesting about the larger font. BTW, do words relating to God, such as "him," "his," tend to be printed with initial capitalizations? This is a point of some minor controversy in Orthodox Christian translations of liturgical and Scriptural texts.
I have been reminded privately that Catholics and Jews have many beliefs in common, which is true and not to be ignored. Our shared moral theology derives from the same source, and indeed the vast majority of what Catholics consider Scripture would be recognised as such by Jews.
BUT ...
There's all that "stuff in the middle". Our respective understandings of the Divine Nature are mutually exclusive. That's not something we can ignore. At least one of us is wrong.
" That's not something we can ignore. At least one of us is wrong."
I hope you haven't inferred that I doubt this in the least!
No ... but that suggestion (that Christians and Jews can't BOTH be right) seems to disturb some people.
Well, Arrogant one, both CAN be right ON PART OF THE TRUTH. That's all I am trying to point out. But I am 100% behind making sure the rest of the truth is not blurred as well.
It's not a branch of Judaism.
Yes it is!
B'Shem Y'shua
chuck
Too bad.
In the near-term, I expect a large number of such will become available for employment due to wholesale executions layoffs at the International Commission for English in the Liturgy (ICEL.)
Jesus was a man AND God.
He prayed to the Father, and specifically mentioned the Holy Spirit (alluded to in some OT writings.)
But I certainly hope you're right. This weekend, I was at my children's vocal recital at a local "in the round" Catholic monstrosity (good acoustics, though). I did my usual horrified browsing through the Oregon missalette while waiting for the event to start....
When you are called to meet, personally, with St. Peter and His Boss, be CERTAIN to document the time you spent with the OCP publications.
It's worth a shot as 'penitential time.'
Jews also believe in the 'Holy Spirit'. However, we see it as simply the manifestation of God's power within creation, rather than as a separate hypostasis within a triune godhead.
Thanks!
Interesting. One of the names/attributes often applied to the Holy Spirit is 'pneumos' or 'breath' (without which there is no life.) So the immanence implied in your realization is there.
With the obvious excepted (Trinitarian theology) we're not all that far apart.
There aren't any upper or lower case letters in Hebrew. It's all one....case, I guess you'd say.
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