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Traditionalist Catholic priestly society (SSPX) well acquainted with new pope
Kansas City Star ^
| May 12, 2005
| STEVE BRISENDINE
Posted on 05/13/2005 1:15:36 PM PDT by NYer
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1
posted on
05/13/2005 1:15:41 PM PDT
by
NYer
To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
"More things change, more they remain the same" ... old French adage.
2
posted on
05/13/2005 1:20:46 PM PDT
by
NYer
("Love without truth is blind; Truth without love is empty." - Pope Benedict XVI)
To: NYer
"He knows who we are, and we know who he is"
Exactly.
3
posted on
05/13/2005 1:22:15 PM PDT
by
te lucis
(The greatest thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother." -Bp. Richard Williamson)
To: NYer
Time will tell. There has been a stumble or two, even three on the way up that hill.
I do not know if Pope Benedict XVI will normalize things, but Hope is a virtue and so I hope but I do not expect. It may be the Pope after this one that corrects things. I am content to wait till then.
To: te lucis
5
posted on
05/13/2005 1:39:26 PM PDT
by
vox_freedom
(Fear no evil)
To: Mark in the Old South
I think Pope B16 will at least passively bring back the TLM. If the TLM is "liberated" from its current constraints and simply allowed to co-exist with the NO (not as a separate rite, but as a "mainstream" occurrence in Catholics churches everywhere), then the TLM will experience exponential growth ipso facto. In time, the NO will be depopulated for two reasons: the V2 generation dies off, and the younger ones are continually drawn to the TLM.
So, a passive undertaking rather than an overt restoration may be what has to happen. Of course, his strategy may be exactly what I suppose and/or he may "traditionalize" the NO, which would also be a good thing.
6
posted on
05/13/2005 1:44:03 PM PDT
by
jrny
(Oremus pro Pontifice nostro Benedicto Decimo Sexto.)
To: te lucis
One statement on its Web site defends the Inquisition, while another expresses support for capital punishment.Oh the horror.
7
posted on
05/13/2005 1:52:34 PM PDT
by
murphE
(These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
To: jrny
I don't know. Your line of reasoning is perfectly fine and I would be inclined to agree with you but I do not know. This is essentially a spiritual battle and things can have unexpected twists. Look how fast the Protestant revolt happened. It was astonishingly fast and yet there were reversals that were just as remarkable. Oh course the governments of the day were involved but I will not rule out any outcome at this point.
One little odd fact the Catholic Church is approx 1 billion people world wide. That is the number described in the Book of Daniel at the time of an Antichrist. In fact the following comes in the middle of a description of the Antichrist.
Daniel chapter 7:9-18
[9] I beheld till thrones were placed, and the Ancient of days sat: his garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like clean wool: his throne like flames of fire: the wheels of it like a burning fire. [10] A swift stream of fire issued forth from before him: thousands of thousands ministered to him, and ten thousand times a hundred thousand stood before him: the judgment sat, and the books were opened.
[11] I beheld because of the voice of the great words which that horn spoke: and I saw that the beast was slain, and the body thereof was destroyed, and given to the fire to be burnt: [12] And that the power of the other beasts was taken away: and that times of life were appointed them for a time, and time. [13] I beheld therefore in the vision of the night, and lo, one like the son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and he came even to the Ancient of days: and they presented him before him. [14] And he gave him power, and glory, and a kingdom: and all peoples, tribes and tongues shall serve him: his power is an everlasting power that shall not be taken away: and his kingdom that shall not be destroyed. [15] My spirit trembled, I Daniel was affrighted at these things, and the visions of my head troubled me.
[16] I went near to one of them that stood by, and asked the truth of him concerning all these things, and he told me the interpretation of the words, and instructed me: [17] These four great beasts are four kingdoms, which shall arise out of the earth. [18] But the saints of the most high God shall take the kingdom: and they shall possess the kingdom for ever and ever.
To: Mark in the Old South
I am not a student of this disagreement but it seems that the Vatican has offered an apostolic adminisitration, no?
Doesn't that mean SSPX could go and set up anywhere? It's not all what they want, but it's a good start. Let their works shine forth, and the rest will come in the Lord's time. Archbishop L signed VII documents and celebrated if briefly and rarely the NO. He signed the 1988 agreement.
Why not accept it, be officially inside, and not be subjected to the smears of heretics?
To: te lucis
Now let's see if the four SSPX Popes decide it's time to become Bishops again.
Oh wait, I forgot.
They were waiting for a different outcome.
One that went something like this:
"Annuntio vobis gaudium magnum:
habemus Papam!
Eminentissimum ac Reverendissimum Dominum,
Dominum Iesum,
Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae Cardinalem Christum.
Qui sibi nomen imposuit Lefebvrii Primi!"
Even then, there would probably be something wrong with Jesus' choice of a coat-of-arms.
To: Piers-the-Ploughman
I don't disagree with your thinking generally, but would note that the Society of St John Vianney, in Campos, Brazil, which did accept the apostolic administration proffered by Rome (by Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos, of the Ecclesia Dei Commission), has found that it cannot in fact operate anywhere in Brazil except in the Diocese of Campos. I understand that this was NOT the original understanding of the deal by the SSJV, that in fact they thought they would have the right to operate (and say the TLM) anywhere in Brazil, but this was quite rapidly denied them AFTER their reconciliation with Rome. Thus more fuel for the fire for those in the SSPX who didn't (and probably still don't) trust those in authority in Rome.
Perhaps there will be more favorable developments under our current Holy Father, however. We can hope and pray (a lot) for that, as the reconciliation of the SSPX would be a great help in the (correct) renewal of the Church that I am sure our Pope wants very much.
To: NYer
For all its disagreements with the Roman Catholic Church - and the list is long - the Society of St. Pius XTalk about spin city.
On what, I'd like to know, does the SSPX disagree with the Roman Catholic Church? AFAIK, they only disagree with the modernist heretic bishops, whose actions were roundly condemned by Catholic magisteria.
To: MegaSilver
On what, I'd like to know, does the SSPX disagree with the Roman Catholic Church? The Latin Mass, for starters. They do not recognize the post Vatican Council II liturgy. Like it or not, it's here to stay.
13
posted on
05/14/2005 5:34:38 AM PDT
by
NYer
("Love without truth is blind; Truth without love is empty." - Pope Benedict XVI)
Comment #14 Removed by Moderator
To: MegaSilver
Go to Our Lady's Warriors website and look at what they (very orthodox) say about the SSPX
15
posted on
05/14/2005 6:53:13 AM PDT
by
Salvation
(†With God all things are possible.†)
To: Mark in the Old South
"It may be the Pope after this one that corrects things. I am content to wait till then." I believe that time is of the essence. The longer we wait, the more souls may be lost through relativism, and the gap widened so much that the past may not even be remembered, much less desired.
16
posted on
05/14/2005 6:59:50 AM PDT
by
Arguss
(Take the narrow road)
To: Salvation; MegaSilver
Go to Our Lady's Warriors website and look at what they (very orthodox) say about the SSPX Why go to "Our Lady's Warriors"? MegaSilver just said she didn't want "spin city". OLW say right on their website they are just a couple of lay people, although people quote and refer to them like they have some kind of authority. Their opinion is as authoritative as mine. Ah, the new Lay Magisterium.
Why not go to the horses mouth, the SSPX website? (after all megasilver did ask what it is that the "SSPX disagrees with" not what OLW thinks they do.:
Society of St Pius X
17
posted on
05/14/2005 8:03:45 AM PDT
by
murphE
(These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
To: murphE
Until you can recommend another site that does such an
excellent job of listing dissidents (including elected government officials who are CINOs) I will continue to use and plug this most excellent site.
FWIW, it also has many other categories other than dissent, for example, Canon Law.
18
posted on
05/14/2005 8:24:15 AM PDT
by
Salvation
(†With God all things are possible.†)
To: Salvation
Oops, that should have read:
such an excellent job of listing dissenters (including elected government officials who are CINOs)
19
posted on
05/14/2005 8:26:41 AM PDT
by
Salvation
(†With God all things are possible.†)
To: Salvation; MegaSilver
This is the question asked by MegaSilver:
On what, I'd like to know, does the SSPX disagree with the Roman Catholic Church?
Now, had MegaSilver asked, "On what, I'd like to know, does the SSPX disagree with the Roman Catholic Church, according to OLWs?" that would be a different story.
20
posted on
05/14/2005 8:33:52 AM PDT
by
murphE
(These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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