Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: jo kus

***His is merely an explanation that makes sense of the analogy of faith.***

And this explanation is now obligatory belief?


***That doesn't mean that we just figured out in 325 that Jesus was God. The same with any development of dogma. ***

Slight difference in that from the beginning the Scriptures have been clear that Jesus is God.


***The Mercy Seat points to WHO sat in it! ***

Not to be course here, but Jesus doesn't sit on Mary when he renders judgement.




***As some have striven to post, we see the Church has regarded Mary as such for quite some time.***

They Church was also extremely dogmatic about Aristotelian cosmology for quite some time - even to the point of punishing dissenters as heretics. What of that?


581 posted on 05/13/2005 1:58:45 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 540 | View Replies ]


To: PetroniusMaximus

I said "...His is merely an explanation that makes sense of the analogy of faith.***

You asked "...And this explanation is now obligatory belief?

No. Unless the Council that defines something for belief and uses the same formula. ONLY such definitions, guided by the Holy Spirit (Acts 15:28) are said to be guarded by the Holy Spirit. Speculation and thought leading to a definition are not dogmatic, per sec.

I said "...That doesn't mean that we just figured out in 325 that Jesus was God. The same with any development of dogma.

You responded "...Slight difference in that from the beginning the Scriptures have been clear that Jesus is God"

Don't be so sure of yourself. There are a number of Scriptural verses that can cause problems with your idea that Scripture is crystal clear on the issue. Think, why would Arius use the same Scripture to question that Jesus was NOT the same essence as the Father? Check Proverbs 8:22 (his favorite verse, from what I read about Arius). What about the times when Jesus ranks Himself below the Father? There are I believe 3 verses, but the specifics escape me now. ALL heretics used the same Scriptures that the Catholics used. The difference was interpretation - thus the REQUIREMENT for Apostolic Tradition. Otherwise, how can we worship in Spirit and in Truth if we don't have the Truth? Christianity is a REVEALED religion.

"Not to be course here, but Jesus doesn't sit on Mary when he renders judgement."

LOL! I don't recall that I said that. The point was that the Ark of the Covenant is not pointing to God as much as the CONTENTS of the Ark points to God (or in the OT, of WHOM sits on the Mercy Seat). The Israelites did not WORSHIP the Ark! Catholics do not WORSHIP Mary! I am not aware of the Early Church Fathers refering to the Mercy Seat and Mary as any sort of analogy, just the Ark itself.

"They Church was also extremely dogmatic about Aristotelian cosmology for quite some time - even to the point of punishing dissenters as heretics. What of that?"

Perhaps you mean Platoism? Aristotelian philosophy did not come into vogue in the West until Aquinas. You have to admit that man is a product of his environment. We base our understanding of God to a degree on the philosophy and culture of our day. Protestants, for example, take the democratic ideals and individualism of the United States and apply it to their ideas of God, the Church, and worship. Is it unusual that the Church, a community living within the world but not of the world, would use culture's definitions and philosophy to try to understand God and what was in Scripture and Tradition? Being anachronistic makes it more difficult to understand why the Fathers did what they did. When we try to define who God is, we do the same thing they did, using 21st century ideas and philosophy to speak to the people of today. Otherwise, the Church loses relevance. With this in mind, some language seems to define our beliefs better than others, thus the West often continues with Thomistic definitions, such as transubstantiation.

Regards


607 posted on 05/13/2005 5:44:34 AM PDT by jo kus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 581 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson