Posted on 05/11/2005 10:04:08 AM PDT by NYer
"So although the plan of Salvation was ordained before the foundation of the earth God was not sure who the mother would be?"
I said God had foreknowledge of Mary's reply to the angel. How is that not knowing who the mother would be? This foreknowledge does not take away from Mary's free will.
Regards
<<< Scripture tells us that Jesus was born without sin
Now Mary is born without sin>>>
All are excellent points.
Jesus Christ - accept no substitutes!
Actually the ONLY place it is translated as full of grace is in the Alexandrian text.
But I do say ask who gets the praise the giver of the gift or the recipient?
It is God that chose Mary as the human mother of Christ and it was God that prepared her for that role. She was nothing in herself without Gods grace. All the praise goes to God !
What if Mary had said no?
"What if Mary had said no?"
That is sort of like asking me "when if God didn't create the universe"? It is a pointless speculation.
Regards
These are two different things. Very different.
Rnmom:<<< Scripture tells us that Jesus was born without sin
Now Mary is born without sin>>>
************8
Petronius:All are excellent points.
Jesus Christ - accept no substitutes!
The both of you have proven my very point, outlined in the second part of my 273. There is a huge differnce between a sinless human and a Divine Being.
SD
Where was Mary asked a question?
***Me (post 273):Mary was a sinless human. Jesus was God Incarnate.***
The Scriptures go out of their way to indicate that Jesus was totally without sin - they do so in several places. It's as if it need to be stated in bold letters that Jesus knew no sin.
There are no such Scriptures regarding Mary.
The attempt to present Mary as sinless is an attach on what the Scriptures indicate is a unique characteristic of Jesus.
Revelations is clear that Jesus alone is worthy - NO ONE else in all of heaven was found worthy to open the scroll.
I'm curious, what are the "QOH", "HM" and "MOG"?
That is because Jesus IS GOD, of course no human being has that worthiness. However, as SD has pointed out, Christ's divinity is completely different from Mary's sinlessness. God protected Mary from the stain of sin, it was done through no effort of her own. Christ was sinless because he is God, sin is by definition a transgression against God; therefore it was never possible for Christ to sin, he didn't require any protection.
Wycliff has "full of grace". King James went with "highly favored", and since that, all Protestant translations. Which is another good reason to avoid them. If you have a difficulty checking with the original, use Douay and when it comes to the books Luther banned, close your eyes.
who gets the praise
In Luke 1, Mary gets the praise. From Archangel Gabriel, no less. He said, "Chaire kecharitomene" -- Hail, full of grace.
Queen of Heaven, Holy Mother, Mother of God.
Thanks for asking. I would never reduce any of God's names to an acronym so I Guess there is a subtle dig there against doctrines/persons that I don't find scriptural.
Fulness of grace means sinlessness, since where grace is, sin cannot be. Which is why, I just discovered, all Protestant translations obfuscate that verse.
I think that Paul never once or maybe only once even mentions Mary by name while unfolding the majority of Christiann doctrine.
James 1
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye adoers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
*** Fulness of grace means sinlessness, since where grace is, sin cannot be***
The greek term behind "full of grace" is the same term used to describe Christians in the book of Ephesians.
I already pointed out what Paul had to say. What is your problem with that?
Does Paul mention holding church services on Sundays?
Mary was NOT Heavenly Mother.
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