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To: gbcdoj; Grey Ghost II; St. Johann Tetzel; Piers-the-Ploughman; AAABEST; Canticle_of_Deborah; ...
Why do you have no shame in deliberately misleading FReepers and lurkers with information that doesn't reflect real time circumstances. Pity. You go to such lengths to paint your inaccurate post as accurate. Just think what incredible blessings you would receive if your work was directed to the glory of God.

Cardinal declares China has "one Church with two faces" -- October 30, 2003 --

The Vatican's Cardinal Roger Etchegaray has moved to stress that the Holy See regards China's "Patriotic" Church, which is loyal to the Government, as part of the universal Church.

There is a view that the "underground" Church, which sees itself as defying the Government in order to maintain loyalty with Rome, is the only "true" Catholic Church in China.

Cardinal Etchegaray, retired president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, spend ten days in China at the end of last month. In the past he has frequently served as the Pope's diplomatic envoy.

He denied the existence of a divide between the underground and Government-recognized patriotic elements of the Catholic Church.

"There is only one Church with two faces," he said. "There is not one 'patriotic' Church and one 'underground' Church, one legal and the other protesting."

Priestly Faculties Granted to Patriotic Association Priests in the United States -- 20 February 2005 --

Some U. S. dioceses, such as New York, Boston, San Francisco, and Washington, D.C., have granted priestly faculties to Patriotic Association priests, allowing them to openly offer Holy Mass and administer other Sacraments, including hearing confessions in Roman Catholic parishes. May Catholics who are the recipients of these sacraments from a Patriotic Association priest are in the dark, because they do not know the identity of these Patriotic Association priests.

According to item 5 of the Holy See’s 1988 China directives, “The Patriotic bishops and priests are not to be invited or even allowed to celebrate religious functions in public, either in the churches or in the oratories of the various religious institutes.”

We do not understand, given the above very clear guideline, how this program of giving faculties to the Patriotic Association priests and allowing them to administer the sacraments in public could be approved by the bishops in the United States.

The most recent case is the appointment of a Patriotic Association priest, Father Ruan Guozhang, to the parish of St. Joseph Church in the China Town of New York City. The written notice sent by the pastor of St. Joseph to his parishioners said simply that Father Ruan will be joining him at St Joseph Church. The pastor did not mention that Father Ruan was from the Diocese of Fuzhou of the Chinese Open (Patriotic Association) Church. He also did not mention that Father Ruan was a Patriotic Association priest who is not a Roman Catholic priest in full communion with the Pope. However, the pastor did unexplainably mention that Father Ruan was from the Diocese of Hong Kong, which he is not unless the Hong Kong diocese has recently incardinated him. By mentioning the Hong Kong diocese, the pastor had given Father Ruan some legitimacy since there is no official Patriotic Association in the Hong Kong diocese. People should have the facts in deciding from which priest they want to receive a sacrament. Without making publicly known in writing that Father Ruan is from the Chinese Open Patriotic Association Church, the faithful are deprived once again of important facts about the priest before receiving a sacrament, because they will take for granted that the priest administering sacraments in a Roman Catholic Church has to be a Roman Catholic priest without knowing that it is actually the contrary at St. Joseph Church of New York’s China Town.

In fact, Father Ruan was ordained by the Patriotic Association Bishop Aloysius Jin, with whom the Vatican has never declared to be in communion. In addition, Father Ruan reports to Bishop Zheng Chang Cheng who is a Chinese Patriotic Association bishop, with whom the Vatican has also never declared to be in communion. Yet, he will be working in the New York diocese as if he were a Roman Catholic priest, which he is not.

Blessed are ye when they shall revile you and persecute you and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven; for so they persecuted the prophets that were before you. -- Matthew 5:11-12

Terri Schindler-Schiavo, please forgive us.
Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us.
Saint Joseph, Patron of the Universal Church and Protector of the Faithful,
pray for us.
Saints Peter and Paul, pray for us.
Pope Saint Gregory the Great, pray for us.
Pope Saint Pius V, pray for us.
Pope Saint Leo the Great, pray for us.
Pope Saint Pius X, pray for us.
Saint Padre Pio, pray for us.
Saint Athanasius, fierce fighter of the Arians, pray for us.
Saint Clare, the great apostle of Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration, pray for us.
Sister Maria Lucia of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart, pray for us
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us.
Father Gommar DePauw, pray for us.
Father Paul Wickens, pray for us.
Saint Michael the Archangel, protect the faithful from the snares of the disciples of Lucifer in disguise, and
bring ruin to those who intimidate, oppress, imprison, torture, and murder His faithful servants
throughout the world.

8 posted on 05/09/2005 2:36:42 PM PDT by Robert Drobot (Da mihi virtutem contra hostes tuos.)
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To: Robert Drobot
Why do you have no shame in deliberately misleading FReepers and lurkers with information that doesn't reflect real time circumstances. Pity. You go to such lengths to paint your inaccurate post as accurate. Just think what incredible blessings you would receive if your work was directed to the glory of God.


9 posted on 05/09/2005 2:41:38 PM PDT by murphE (The crown of victory is promised only to those who engage in the struggle. St. Augustine)
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To: Robert Drobot

Anyone can see that your statement "the Vatican has declared no schism, nor any excommunication of these Communist-controlled, pro-abortion clergy" is absolutely false.

Isn't it amazing that we now learn that "the Vatican" is the retired Cardinal Etchegaray or "Some U. S. dioceses, such as New York, Boston, San Francisco, and Washington, D.C.", but "the Vatican" is NOT John Paul II, or the Congregation for Propaganda. Amazing.

I hope you will realize this and admit that, while it is true that some misguided bishops don't hold the CCPA to be schismatic, or their bishops to be excommunicated, the official position of "the Vatican" is exactly the opposite.


10 posted on 05/09/2005 2:43:23 PM PDT by gbcdoj (St. Athanasius, ora pro nobis.)
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To: Robert Drobot; murphE
Let me add that the Cardinal Kung Foundation agrees with me.

http://www.cardinalkungfoundation.org/articles/newsletter/christmas_greetings2004.htm

Most importantly, the new 2004 guidelines confirm the validity of the often ignored and violated previous China guidelines issued by the Vatican to the world’s bishops in September 1988. ...

In its 2004 China guidelines , without being semantic, the Vatican has now de facto acknowledged that the CPA has been in schism, because, as Msgr. Nugent puts it, “Obviously, the Patriotic Association has the characteristic of being in schism.” For the first time that I can recall, a directive authorized by an official Vatican representative uses the word “schism” to describe the CPA! This is a milestone!


12 posted on 05/09/2005 2:48:42 PM PDT by gbcdoj (St. Athanasius, ora pro nobis.)
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