Posted on 05/09/2005 6:40:45 AM PDT by Robert Drobot
There's something here for everybody.
The truth, and nothing but the truth.
Thanks for posting.
Don't forget Fr. Paul A. Wickens.
Don't forget Fr. Paul A. Wickens.
"This was formed by Archbishop Levada of San Francisco, who claims that the Vatican--and no doubt Cardinal Sodano was involved in the decision--has authorized the granting of an "apostolic mission" to these priests of the pro-abortion, Communist-controlled, schismatic CPA."
There are reports in our local papers that Levada is being considered for Pope Benedict's old Curia job.
The facts:
Josef Cardinal Tomko, Directives on the Church in China, 1988 AD, Approved by Pope John Paul II:
Since 1958, by the initiative of the Patriotic Association, numerous Episcopal ordinations have taken place without the necessary consent of the Roman Pontiff (mandato apostolico).In accordance with the Doctrine of the Church and the canonical discipline, such ordinations are to be considered graviously illicit; those who receive the ordination and those who confer it, incur in the excommunication “latae sententiae”, reserved to the Holy See. (cfr. Decree of the Holy Office of April 9, 1951 and Canon 1382 in the codex of Canon Law)
Guidelines on China from the Vatican, 2004:
Obviously, the Patriotic Association has the characteristic of being in schism. It is the source of confusion and divisiveness. The Patriotic Association claims that it can assume the role that belongs only to the bishops in order to minister to the Church under the principle of maintaining the faith. But, in past years, the Patriotic Association unceasingly placed heavy pressure on bishops and priests to a degree that has become unbearable. Bishops and priests can never accept the principles underlying the Patriotic Association.
Cardinal declares China has "one Church with two faces" -- October 30, 2003 --
There is a view that the "underground" Church, which sees itself as defying the Government in order to maintain loyalty with Rome, is the only "true" Catholic Church in China.
Cardinal Etchegaray, retired president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, spend ten days in China at the end of last month. In the past he has frequently served as the Pope's diplomatic envoy.
He denied the existence of a divide between the underground and Government-recognized patriotic elements of the Catholic Church.
"There is only one Church with two faces," he said. "There is not one 'patriotic' Church and one 'underground' Church, one legal and the other protesting."
Priestly Faculties Granted to Patriotic Association Priests in the United States -- 20 February 2005 --
According to item 5 of the Holy See’s 1988 China directives, “The Patriotic bishops and priests are not to be invited or even allowed to celebrate religious functions in public, either in the churches or in the oratories of the various religious institutes.”
We do not understand, given the above very clear guideline, how this program of giving faculties to the Patriotic Association priests and allowing them to administer the sacraments in public could be approved by the bishops in the United States.
The most recent case is the appointment of a Patriotic Association priest, Father Ruan Guozhang, to the parish of St. Joseph Church in the China Town of New York City. The written notice sent by the pastor of St. Joseph to his parishioners said simply that Father Ruan will be joining him at St Joseph Church. The pastor did not mention that Father Ruan was from the Diocese of Fuzhou of the Chinese Open (Patriotic Association) Church. He also did not mention that Father Ruan was a Patriotic Association priest who is not a Roman Catholic priest in full communion with the Pope. However, the pastor did unexplainably mention that Father Ruan was from the Diocese of Hong Kong, which he is not unless the Hong Kong diocese has recently incardinated him. By mentioning the Hong Kong diocese, the pastor had given Father Ruan some legitimacy since there is no official Patriotic Association in the Hong Kong diocese. People should have the facts in deciding from which priest they want to receive a sacrament. Without making publicly known in writing that Father Ruan is from the Chinese Open Patriotic Association Church, the faithful are deprived once again of important facts about the priest before receiving a sacrament, because they will take for granted that the priest administering sacraments in a Roman Catholic Church has to be a Roman Catholic priest without knowing that it is actually the contrary at St. Joseph Church of New York’s China Town.
In fact, Father Ruan was ordained by the Patriotic Association Bishop Aloysius Jin, with whom the Vatican has never declared to be in communion. In addition, Father Ruan reports to Bishop Zheng Chang Cheng who is a Chinese Patriotic Association bishop, with whom the Vatican has also never declared to be in communion. Yet, he will be working in the New York diocese as if he were a Roman Catholic priest, which he is not.
Blessed are ye when they shall revile you and persecute you and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven; for so they persecuted the prophets that were before you. -- Matthew 5:11-12
Anyone can see that your statement "the Vatican has declared no schism, nor any excommunication of these Communist-controlled, pro-abortion clergy" is absolutely false.
Isn't it amazing that we now learn that "the Vatican" is the retired Cardinal Etchegaray or "Some U. S. dioceses, such as New York, Boston, San Francisco, and Washington, D.C.", but "the Vatican" is NOT John Paul II, or the Congregation for Propaganda. Amazing.
I hope you will realize this and admit that, while it is true that some misguided bishops don't hold the CCPA to be schismatic, or their bishops to be excommunicated, the official position of "the Vatican" is exactly the opposite.
You also think that JP II and Propaganda don't qualify as "the Vatican", but a couple US bishops do?
http://www.cardinalkungfoundation.org/articles/newsletter/christmas_greetings2004.htm
Most importantly, the new 2004 guidelines confirm the validity of the often ignored and violated previous China guidelines issued by the Vatican to the world’s bishops in September 1988. ...In its 2004 China guidelines , without being semantic, the Vatican has now de facto acknowledged that the CPA has been in schism, because, as Msgr. Nugent puts it, “Obviously, the Patriotic Association has the characteristic of being in schism.” For the first time that I can recall, a directive authorized by an official Vatican representative uses the word “schism” to describe the CPA! This is a milestone!
I'll pray for you.
Does having "....the characteristic of being in schism...." the same as being in schism?
From your singularly unique frame of mind, please explain how a body of communist atheists, "....in schism...." are invited by the Vatican to take part in the Synod of Bishops for Asia . VATICAN CITY, APR 28 (ZENIT) - Chinese officials have formally refused to grant passports to the two bishops that JP2 invited to participate in the Special Assembly for Asia of the Synod of Bishops. Bishops Matthias Duan Yiming and Joseph Xu Zhixuan....have the support of the Chinese [Catholic] Patriotic Church, which is controlled by the Communist Party.
Is the Cardinal Etchegaray you scorn the same Roger Cardinal Etchegary of France, just appointed Deputy Dean of the College of Cardinals by the most senior voice in "....the Vatican....", Pope Benedict XVI?
http://www.zenit.org/english/asia/za980420.htmlThe Holy Father said that he had invited, in addition to the bishops of the diocese of Hong Kong, two other bishops from mainland China, Matthias Duan Yinming and Joseph Xu Zhixuan, coadjutors of the diocese of Wanhsien. Duan Yinming, along with Cardinal Ignatius Gong Pin-Mei, who lives in the U.S., is the last bishop named by Pope Pius XII, before the rupture between China and the Vatican in 1951. Although a member of the Patriotic Church, he is highly respected by the clandestine Catholic church, faithful to Rome. Through this gesture, the Pope has guaranteed the presence of bishops from mainland China, since those who belong to the clandestine church would never have been allowed by the communist authorities to travel to Rome for the Synod. His auxiliary bishop, Joseph Xu Zhixuan, was named and consecrated by Duan Yinming himself and is also highly esteemed by members of both churches.
Members of schismatic churches were also invited to observe at Vatican II, and Bl. Pius IX invited the Orthodox to participate at the Vatican I Council - that does not mean that the Lutherans, Orthodox, etc. are no longer schismatic. Attendance at the Synod might have helped convert them to the Catholic religion.
PS: I agree with the position of the Cardinal Kung Foundation on what "the Vatican"'s position is. How can that be a "singularly unique frame of mind"? Perhaps you should direct your flames towards them - as for myself, I think they would know more about the situation than either you or me.
Drobot,
Your attempts to prove that a retired Cardinal is "the Vatican" (while JP II, Tomko, and Nugent aren't "the Vatican") are silly. Just give it up.
You're forgetting that schism no longer means schism. The Orthodox are no longer schismatics according to the new thought-speak. We've got various levels of "communion" nowadays.
I saw Fr. Shannon Collins on EWTN trying to describe the dogma of EENS as "little lifeboats hanging alongside the barque of Peter" It was a pathetic attempt to reformulate the doctrine in order to deal with the contradictory conclusions that must be drawn.
Drolesky is right in his analysis about the Chinese invading the Church, "Communion" partial or otherwise is another word for "infiltration" and "corruption"
And we will always get the Vatican two-step between language and actions while the weak, the hopelessly confused and the wicked are running things to paraphrase bishop Williamson.
I just had a revelation. I remembered a scene from Ghostbusters II.
At one point Bill Murray is discussing his laundry with Sigourney Weaver. He says, (paraphrase) "the problem with women is that they only view laundry as either clean or dirty."
"I however believe there are many subtle levels in between, take this shirt for instance, if I put it out on the balcony for an hour, it's as good as new."
Basically the writers of Ghostbusters must be on the same intellectual level as the Vatican.
Holy Mother Church has always taught that she only wants clean laundry or laundry that needs a cleaning.
Nowadays we can slime around in clothes of whatever "subtle" degrees of clean and dirty are available.
The C P A are basically dirty laundry that if we think about it through the eyes of "Peter Venckmen" as opposed to Thomas Aquinas we can accept.
That's a nice thought isn't it? Nothing like unity with dirty laundry.
Hmm...I wonder if there are more correlations between Ghostbusters II and Vatican II? Aside from both sucking compared to the first ones, I'd have to think about it some more.
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