Your Pastor: Shepherd or CEO?

New Horizons ^ | 2002 | T. David Gordon

[suzyjaruki]

k2,
Waste no time in meeting with him! If ever there is a time that Matthew 18:15-17 applies it is now.

Pray for him and pray for the meeting.

[blue-duncan]

The artificial entity, the corporation, was invented long before lawsuits. It is really unbiblical since its purpose was to outlive the generation of the community that started it. When God calls a certain group together He renews it by His Spirit on a moment by moment basis. When the purpose of that community is fulfilled it should pass away and its members absorbed into a new calling and a new community with a different personality and a different purpose is raised up. The artificial entity with a life of its own exists outside the life of that new community and forces it to conform to its calling rather than what the Spirit may have for it. It is not always in conflict, but if you look at the majority of the small to medium size churches that have been in existence for a couple of generations, the majority of them have no real life. They are just doing businesslike their parents did. Like Hezekiah, better they should have died than live another 15 years and brought a Manasseh into this world.

[Muzzle_em]

Amen.
As a Christian, I used to have a knee-jerk reaction to statements such as yours, but as I've grown older and observed more, I'm horrified by what I see in the "mega-churches" that are springing up everywhere.

I agree with your belief that God wants a a close and personal relationship with us and wants us to share him with one another, not just congregate on Sunday, listen to one person tell us what (he thinks) we should do, throw money in the plate and go about our lives until next Sunday.

[jude24]

The artificial entity, the corporation, was invented long before lawsuits.

That's laughable....

Please, your ignorance is painful to watch. Lawsuits have existed for millenia.

[suzyjaruki]

When the purpose of that community is fulfilled it should pass away and its members absorbed into a new calling and a new community with a different personality and a different purpose is raised up.

I agree with you and I feel the same way about programs and ministries.

[madison10]

It's just a short walk from there to having the pastor think of himself as a manager/CEO.

Which is NOT a good thing, especially where money is concerned. Take it from a church secretary of almost 10 years.

[jude24]

The artificial entity with a life of its own exists outside the life of that new community and forces it to conform to its calling

That's exactly what the Church is. You're not supposed to just up and leave because a new charismatic leader comes around. Thats how cults get started.

[blue-duncan]

I get a sense of nostalgia in the article, a longing for something in the writer's past for a small group with a "shepherd" who can manage and personally care for the flock. The problem with that, I see, is he would not accept the small group model for shepherding. I don't get the sense he really buys into the gifts given to the members of the church along with the offices. His use of Paul as an example of a "hands on" shepherd, I think, is misplaced. Paul prayed for the churches but when he was present and in his letters, he is constantly reminding and exhorting leaders to raise up new leaders who would be able to raise up new leaders who could do the work of the ministry. Even the disciples in the early church appointed Spirit-filled people to do the hands on ministry so they could spend their time in study, prayer and teaching. Neither Paul nor the disciples spent themselves doing everything in the church. Their goal was "to equip the saints to do the work of the ministry." But the traditional church model fights that principle.

[Corin Stormhands]

I get a sense of nostalgia in the article, a longing for something in the writer's past for a small group with a "shepherd" who can manage and personally care for the flock.

God delivered me from a situation like that. It had reached near cult status with the Pastor being everyone's shepherd. People didn't make a move - didn't change jobs, buy a house, go on vacation - without the Pastor's approval.

Sadly it was my home church, so it was hard to leave. But politics came along and I left when I was accused of backsliding because I did a lit drop instead of going to mow the Pastor's lawn (with all the other men from the church).

[blue-duncan]

Perhaps I should have been a little more precise in my statement. I was responding to the statement that lawsuits have changed our freedoms in the context of why churches incorporate. My reply should have been it was not lawsuits that caused churches to incorporate, but the desire for perpetuity.

[jude24]

That might be true.

I still argue perpetuity of a church isn't a bad thing.

[scottro]

In these type of settings,one becomes an armchair Christian,never really getting to know the guy next to you and only superficially. The early Church sought after one another's needs and all parts of the body were crucial to its survival. We need to come out from the way we do church or even think about church. I used to think that because I wasn't in church on Sundays ,I was missing out on something,but now God is unveiling to me what Church really is. What about those who can't make it to a service or who really aren't accepted. Are they not as important to the body. We need to become the Church{Called out ones} and start to move in our gifting of reaching out to others and not become caught up in Christianity { spectator-ship} and participate with Christ on a daily basis.Who needs a ministry when one actually becomes the ministry and every day life becomes more meaningful to be that servant instead of trying to train or take the necessary steps to qualify {Serving Man's agenda} instead of God's.

[HarleyD]

Yes, I would agree.

[Gamecock]

Nice post Suzy.

If more pastors were shepherds the state of the church in America would be much healthier.

[xzins]

Do you realize that shepherds use serious farming techniques and are part of mega-businesses? Their intent is the most finely tuned farming organization that is possible.

I imagine in Jacob's day that he was a rather shoddy goatherd/shepherd.

[P-Marlowe]

From the article: "We must raise the question of how large a congregation can be while still retaining a biblical ministry. If the God-ordained responsibility of church officers is to "watch out for your souls, as those who must give account" (Heb. 13:17), does there not come a point when the sheer size of a church makes such care difficult, if not impossible?"

When it comes down to brass tacks, the author of this article is preaching against God's sovereignty. If God can draw people to a church, he can certainly provide for their needs. What kind of heretical nonsense is this guy spewing? Is God so small and weak that he can't meet the spiritual needs of his children in a church which he caused to grow?

Amazing. I believe that if God grows a church, he will provide the means to feed his sheep. Sometimes I think I'm a more consistent Calvinist than the majority of the GRPL's.

[blue-duncan]

Don't you think Jacob was wise to pay attention to the outcasts rather than the traditional, pure and pedigreed flocks? He seemed to have recognized in the forgotten, overlooked and rejected that there was real life and potential, much more than in the normal flock. He also catered to them and they increased in numbers and strength while the traditional flocks seemed to stay the same and weakened considerably. He also incurred the jealous wrath of the traditional shepherds because of his success in increasing the nontraditional flock.

[xzins]

He also catered to them and they increased in numbers and strength while the traditional flocks seemed to stay the same and weakened considerably.

Yes, he is practicing excellent farming technique....his management style as a shepherd was impeccable.

By and large, it makes no sense to try to divorce good management practices from proper shepherding.

[xzins]

Two things strike me.

1. The early Jerusalem Church was a mega-church and they managed quite well, and they practiced spiritual managment and shepherding.

2. The entire OT body of believers, if I remember correctly, were properly to worship in only one location -- the temple. Synagogues were not extensions of the temple.

[thePilgrim]

***Sometimes I think I'm a more consistent Calvinist than the majority of the GRPL's.***

Funny that I was given an unsolicited invitation and I never call myself a Calvinist. I'll now explain the reason why.

It doesn't matter what one calls himself. You can call yourself a Calvinist all day and it be no more true than if you were to call yourself a Martian. So, I usually leave such complimentary labels as being called a Calvinist to others. It saves me embarrassment for giving myself grand labels that don't apply.

Now, as to your accusations of heresy by the author. Note, that the goal and effect of most mega-churches is not a close community where everyone knows everyone else. This is from a recent article I posted here on FR:

Bill Hybels, founder of the Willow Creek Community Church, put the church growth principles into practice. When he decided to start his own church in the northwest suburbs of Chicago, he conducted a door-to-door market survey to determine why suburbanites stayed away from church. On the basis of his survey he discovered that they were bored by church, that they were put off by traditional religious symbols, and that they preferred to remain anonymous when they attend church. Consequently, he designed a church to overcome their objections.

---

So, you see that the goal of these mega-churches is anonymity. I guess if God does actually take care of the spiritual needs of the flock when they prefer to remain anonymous then why bother going to church at all. If the only reason for going is so you can say that my butt warmed a pew that morning then you should probably stay home.

You have actually presumed without proving the case that God has caused the growth of these kinds of anonymous churches. To be quite honest, I find that more disturbing than the idea that the author puts forth when he says: "If the God-ordained responsibility of church officers is to "watch out for your souls, as those who must give account" (Heb. 13:17), does there not come a point when the sheer size of a church makes such care difficult, if not impossible?"

If the Lord has given men personal responsibility to watch over your souls, then the author is correct to assert that size will make that difficult or impossible, especially given that the goal of these churches in the first place is anonymity. That, by definition, makes it impossible for God's ordained method of overseeing of the souls of the elect to function.

But, such is the method of these mega-churches. They would rather bypass God's Word on such things for the sake of getting the pews warmed.

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.