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To: Kolokotronis
the reglarization and integration of the chants in the Roman Mass and the increase in the use of Icons would be of great assistance in any reunion between Roman and the East.

How different is the chant in the east and where can we find information on the theology of the icon? I'm one who does believe that east and west need to be joined, but that there is a lot to learn about each other and a lot of minds to convince first.

The music of the Liturgy is a recurring subject at Orthodox parishes among some converts.

It's plain and simply a recurring theme among Catholics. With all luck, under BXVI a lot of the crap will fall to the wayside.

19 posted on 05/05/2005 5:17:12 AM PDT by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: Desdemona; Kolokotronis
"How different is the chant in the east..."

There is absolutely no need for the RC church to use Byzantine or Znamenny chants or hymnography. The West has its own very rich chant tradition. It was melded into the Gregorian chant, but many other older chant forms exist.

As K. points out, the hymnology itself is a huge problem in the NO, but frankly it was also so in the low mass culture of old Catholicism as well, and the absence of other aspects of the daily office in parish life hurt Catholicism a lot, too. There is a lot of rich hymnology going un-used in the Western tradition, although there is no reason that borrowing couldn't take place from the East if it was felt to be helpful. B16 has written that "rites" in the past were not as rigidly separated as they are today, and by implication, I would assume that he is implying that borrowing can take place.

"where can we find information on the theology of the icon"

I'll start by posting a link to B16's article when I have time. He likes to quote Evdokimov, whom I've never read, but who is a very peripheral (and, to some, "iffy") figure in Russian Orthodoxy. I would dare say there are better works than his, and I will get some titles and links to you.

K wrote: "The music of the Liturgy is a recurring subject at Orthodox parishes among some converts..."

This is interesting. I've never met anyone who has anything to say but to talk about how wonderful and rich the music is compared to what they had grown up with. I've never once had someone ask me why we can't use western hymns.

But I think that this is partly because I've been almost exclusively in Russian parishes, where the chant has a more "accessible" feel than does Byzantine chant. But as converts are in the church more and become more infused with the phronema, they more and more prefer the old Byzantine and Znamenny chant forms. The Russians themselves can be a problem here, since some of them developed too much of a taste for 19th century Russian "romantic" forms.

"It's plain and simply a recurring theme among Catholics. With all luck, under BXVI a lot of the crap will fall to the wayside."

All I can say to that is "Amen!"

20 posted on 05/05/2005 5:54:06 AM PDT by Agrarian
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To: Desdemona; Agrarian

Des, you can get a 4-CD package which includes different kinds of RC Chant (Archiv 435-032-2)--Ambrosian, Mozarabic, Gregorian are included.

There are also recordings of G.O. and Russ.O. chants out there, although I don't have any...


22 posted on 05/05/2005 6:54:08 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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