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To: Kolokotronis; sionnsar; Agrarian
Pray excuse my vast ignorance in these matters, but Kolo made a joke about sharing Orthodoxy over baklava and it inspired my curiosity:

In cases like this, where an New World Episcopalian becomes Orthodox, what "rite" or "national church" (apologies if I'm using bad terms here) are they brought into? Is it just the one they first approach?

And Johnson was chrismated at an Antiochene church--but is that a part of one single "Orthodox Church of Canada", or do for example the European national churches Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox etc. have separate metropolitans and hierarchy?

Evcharisto! (Or Spasibo, to cover my bases :)

12 posted on 05/03/2005 9:59:00 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Claud

The Lebanese and the Syrians make the best "baklawa"! :)

Seriously, it makes no difference into which of the Churches a convert is baptized and/or chrismated. It generally amounts to where they first went when they became interested in Orthodoxy. There are different Orthodx jurisdictions in North America, but we can go to any one we want of the canonical Churches.


13 posted on 05/03/2005 10:43:46 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Claud
Orthodox is Orthodox is Orthodox. I have been a member of OCA, ROCOR, Serbian, and Greek parishes here in the US, and have communed in Antiochian parishes. A priest will make sure that you are a properly baptized and chrismated Orthodox Christian in a church that is recognized as being Orthodox, and that's it. There is no "papers please," application for tranfer of membership, etc...

In the "old countries" there is only one canonical Orthodox church within a given geographical area. The turmoil in the Ukraine is an exception, and there are always a few of those around.

In the "diaspora" the situation is much more complex. The way that it is supposed to work is that the "Old World" is divided up in areas of mission responsibility: all of Africa under the Patriarchate of Alexandria, the Middle East under Antioch, Asia under Russia. Western Europe was traditionally the purview of the Patriarch of Rome, but the Orthodox there are generally either under the Patriarch of Constantinople or of Moscow.

The New World was originally under the jurisdiction of Moscow, because of the Russian missionary activity in Alaska and to a lesser extent along the West Coast. All Orthodox in the Americas, of every nationality, were under Moscow, and Moscow had begun the work of bringing in Arabic, Greek, Serbian, etc... priests. The first bishop that the Russians consecrated on US soil was actually a Syrian, the recently glorified St. Raphael of Brooklyn.

Then, the Russian revolution happened, and it all fell apart. Each "old country" Patriarchate stepped in and took over "their" people and parishes. Unfortunately, all of these Old World patriarchates are chronically short on cash, and they discovered that their American flocks were a major source of income, so we won't see this coming to an end anytime soon. Most of the Patriarchates of Constantinople and Antioch's budget comes from the Greek Archdiocese and the Antiochian Archdiocese respectively, here in America, which are extreme examples, but I'll bet that the Patriarchate of Serbia, for instance, needs American money very much as well, and American and Canadian Ukrainian money flows across the Atlantic as well.

Anyway, the practical solution that has been worked out here is that overlapping jurisdictions are just accepted as a fact of life (albeit one that we hope comes to an end in the coming decades), and there is full mutual recognition, in spite of the fact that everyone is technically "non-canonical." There is certainly no one Orthodox Church of Canada, or of any other country in the Americas, Australia, or NZ. Some day we hope that these things will eventually happen.

As Kolokotronis says, the jurisdiction one enters is up to the convert. In practice, one is usually not so much choosing between jurisdictions as between what parish one feels most comfortable in. Which jurisdiction that is is going to vary a lot depending on where you live and what your background is. I encourage anyone interested in Orthodoxy to visit every Orthodox parish within reasonable driving distance of their homes, and to visit them several times, to find out which parish one is most at home in for exploring Orthodoxy.

And you can't really learn about it without attending services for some time. We just got done with Holy Week and Pascha, and had 16 services in 11 days, with the vast majority of the parish going to at least 50% of those services. It is an experience that one can't even begin to explain or talk about. We had a regularly visiting Protestant clergyman go through Holy Week with us -- I don't think he missed a service. He almost couldn't talk about it, he was so moved. I don't know if he'll ever become Orthodox, and it doesn't matter -- his path is known to God and him alone. But I do know that he now has an understanding of our faith that all of the many books he had read could never give.

16 posted on 05/03/2005 1:00:06 PM PDT by Agrarian
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