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To: Rutles4Ever
In the same way, Vatican II and the novus ordo were, as a matter of faith, infallibly inspired by the Holy Spirit.

You think? The Novus Ordo was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Where do you get this stuff?

Here's an interesting quote from Fr. Echert, an Expert on the EWTN forum that might clear things up for you.

Since cause and effect cannot be seen with the naked eye, and there remains, therefore, conjecture on the matter of cause, I believe it legitimate for Catholics to be able to debate the nature of the cause(s), which have produced the effects in the Church of the present time--many of which are documented. If all aspects of a council are precluded from any such discussion, on the assumption that all aspects of all councils are somehow sacrosanct and divinely inspired, then we do a disservice to the pursuit of truth and a remedy, in my opinion. There are ambiguities and omissions in, and false translations of, documents of the recent council which have been used and misused by certain elements within the Church, with devastating results. Similarly, things never envisioned or commented upon by the council have been carried out, in the name of the council—the radical changes to the Sacred Liturgy, for instance. This has now gone on for four decades; one wonders if this will continue for centuries. It will, if we label those who raise the question as unfaithful, or those who object as dissenters. - Fr. Echert

131 posted on 05/03/2005 6:43:49 AM PDT by murphE (The crown of victory is promised only to those who engage in the struggle. St. Augustine)
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To: murphE
There are ambiguities and omissions in, and false translations of, documents of the recent council which have been used and misused by certain elements within the Church, with devastating results. Similarly, things never envisioned or commented upon by the council have been carried out, in the name of the council—the radical changes to the Sacred Liturgy, for instance. This has now gone on for four decades; one wonders if this will continue for centuries. It will, if we label those who raise the question as unfaithful, or those who object as dissenters. - Fr. Echert

I agree with this statement one hundred percent. It indicts the implementation of the Council and liberties taken in spite of it, not its substance. I also agree that we can't get further by labeling each other, and for that, I apologize and ask forgiveness for my uncharitable use of the phrase, "your ilk".

162 posted on 05/03/2005 8:58:37 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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