[sionnsar]

Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

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Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

[PAR35]

be it Roman Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran or Methodist,

The Trinity Hymnal, jointly published by the conservative Orthodox Presbyterians and the fairly conservative PCA also uses the "We Believe" construct.

[Cultural Jihad]

A more important question than the use of personal pronouns in a liturgy: Why are Anglicans so enamored with divorce even though it is explicitly condemned by Jesus Christ?

[pbear8]

I don't really know what those around me believe so I can't speak for them. If I am to believe the polls many don't really believe what I believe. I solve that problem by responding in Latin and saying the Creed in Latin. That way I am stating what I believe.

[Unam Sanctam]

As a Catholic, I blame ICEL. I don't know who you Anglicans are going to blame for deliberately sloppy translations from the Latin.

[tellw]

First of all, the original form of the Creed, as agreed in the Ecumenical Councils of the fourth century was certainly in the first person plural, we believe, for all the bishops spoke together to affirm it. However, and this is very important, when it was received in local dioceses it was used as a Baptismal Creed and so it automatically became “I believe.”

I'm a big fan of Peter Toon, but I think he's making a mountain out of a molehill. The Book of Common Prayer changes many original phrases from singular into plural (e.g. Psalm 51: 16 reads "Thou shalt open my lips, O Lord, and my mouth shall show thy praise" but in Morning Prayer the phrase is rendered responsively in the plural: "O Lord, Open thou our lips, and our mouth shall show forth thy praise.")

Given that the Nicene Creed is said at Holy Communion, which is always conducted by the priest and at least one communicant, I don't see what's wrong with the creed being said in a plural form but keeping all other parts of the original language. I wouldn't change the Apostles' creed, however, because the Daily Office can be said by one person alone.

[Mershon]

Credo and "we believe" is only one of more than 360 gross mistranslations and non-translated words in the English Novus Ordo Missae.

For 40 years, Catholics have had their faith corrupted and destroyed through this insidious process. Another example is the so-called "mysterium fidei" (mystery of Faith) in the Novus Ordo. This was pulled out of the consecration formula itself, and has one Latin option. But alas, the English version has 4 approved versions, all of varying meanings, none of which are correct. Right after the consecration of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ (transubstantiation, which IS TRULY the "mysterium fidei"), we often repeat "when we eat this BREAD and drink this CUP we proclaim your death Lord Jesus, until you come in glory." Of course, this is in effect, a subtle denial of transubstantiation.

For non-Catholics, this is no big deal, I understand. But this is but one of hundreds of mistranslations and shenanigans that infringe on "lex orandi lex credendi" in the Novus Ordo rite of the Catholic liturgy.

Pray for Pope Benedict XVI to free the Classical Roman rite of Mass for all priests in the Catholic Church, and for all the altars on the world on a daily basis.

[Fithal the Wise]

This discussion misses the mark by majoring in the minor. IMHO, perhaps one of the most misleading translations used throughout scripture is the rendering of Pisteuo, as believe.

Pisteuo is much more than believe. In the Greek usage of the time, it is action based upon belief sustained by confidence in the Deity. There is no English equivalant verb unless the word "faithe" were invented. Trust would be closer but still inadequate.