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That is all fine and well, but how do I, as someone interested in adult education in the Church, bring people to classes?

Well, to steal a phrase, take the mountain to Mohamed.

I am a Knight of Columbus, and I have been having great talks with the help of our Seminarian, over chicken wings and beer. A lot of info gets across, and guys listen to other guys in the presence of Budweiser. Depth doesn't get across, but if I get them interested while they chomp down on a flapper, maybe I can get them reading a "Catholic Answers" tract when their hands are free.

I am reading Catholicism for Dummies, I like what I read so far. I am handing this copy to a friend, after I check it out, but I may buy a second copy for a different friend.

I guess the answer to your question is one by one. You reach and save souls one person at a time.

I know other parishes have classes as does mine, and you are spot on, the same people come. Something different has to happen, if you have an idea tell me.

How many Catholics do you think read the Bible? The Catechism?

I think when it affects them it gets read. That is the bottom line.

The Church has a duty to excommunicate, you are correct, but it also has a duty to save as many as possible. I guess with one hand the Church must offer grace, and with the other uphold justice. In some cases where people are spreading error, the Church must act to make it clear that what they teach is an error, but on the other hand, most pastors would never take the case of an individual parishioner to a Bishop.

In the case of "Public Sinners" like politicians, Bishops tend to be soft because of other factors, like the reality of running a multimillion dollar organization. It may not be right, and we are amazed when a Bishop gets a backbone, but more often than not, the "public Sinner" impeaches himself with fuzzy ideas formulated out of politics, rather than a excommunication.

"A lot of info gets across, and guys listen to other guys in the presence of Budweiser"

LOL I have considered such an option at a small-group level with wine and cheese (brings in couples, rather than just the guys). I have to flesh it out some more, though. The practical stuff always gets in the way of the theory!

Your comment regarding one person at a time is very true. We try to do this whenever we can. Of course, in today's society, you take the risk of "hurting feelings" and coming across as being dogmatic or something like that, when you hold to the teachings of the Church that aren't popular. I have learned that you must develop thick skin and have logical arguments prepared in advance to put aside the "wisdom of the masses", which is basically listening to what the culture teaches.

"if you have an idea tell me."

That is what I was hoping for! But your Knights idea is not bad. I'll have to check into that.

"The Church has a duty to excommunicate, you are correct, but it also has a duty to save as many as possible"

True, and if you read 1 Cor 5, you'll see that excommunication's goal was to save souls by forcing one to repent of their actions. The Church must take its supernatural duty more seriously if it wants to continue to maintain its position in society. That is why the Church has lost so much relevance in society today. That is why the Church is often not taken seriously even by its own members. That is what happened with the sex scandal and the politician scandals that are allowed to continue. Bishops are not considering their supernatural duties of shepherding their flocks and are considering the Church as more a social welfare organization.

The liberal movement that hurt Vatican 2 and the dissent allowed within the US following Paul VI's ruling on contraceptions in the 1960's show this infection within the United States. Continue to pray for more Bishops who are taking their jobs seriously, realizing they have a higher power to answer to then public opinion polls. "To those who have been given much, more will be expected".

Regards

Would you be able to give me the Vatican II documents and citations which go to the fact that theology did not change with the Council.

I am looking to perhaps establish a dialogue with this person and to that end I would like to be more prepared than I am at this time. To that end, having Vatican II conciliar documents (with the citation) would be enormously useful so as to respond to her contention that theology changed with Vatican II.

I have the Catechism, Ordinatio Sacredotalis, Humanae Vitae, Donum Vitae, Evangelium Vitae, Theology of the Body to discuss the moral Truths, but Vatican II is the battleground.

Thanks.