(Vanity) Please inform me about the alleged wrongdoings of Fr. Maciel

Self

[SaintThomasMorePrayForUs]

There is no substance to those charges. They are made only to bring disrepute to the LC's because they are a particularly orthodox order. For more information, check out this website

http://www.legionaryfacts.org/FATHERMACIEL.html

[Mark in the Old South]

I don't know about sexual abuse but stay away from them. We are very conservative at my Church (SSPX) and have a very very very conservative family that used to send their children to one of the Legionnaire's school. She tells us they would not let the parents visit. She could not understand and kept pressing for a reason when they admitted to her they were brainwashing them. She says this was their word not hers. She is not one to fib or even stretch the truth. She pulled the kids right away.

[saradippity]

I think you can find all you need to know by doing a search. There is absolutely nothing except feelings,opinions,accusations and denials. This is the wrong time to start into this. The investigation is being pursued by the appropriate Congregation and when they come to their conclusion we will know. This is no time to speculate.

The Church is in a critical place,Pope BenedictXVI,spelled it all out. We need to be dealing with absolute truth vs.relative truth. To continue to pursue the abuse that has been proved,to deal with the cover-ups is also fair and just,to start wrestling with this highly charged issue is just plain politics,it is what I expect will be the new tactic of the bitter,old,yesterday dissidents. If you are one of them-press on. But if you are not then start supporting the Pope in your own parish or diocese.Catholicism,Christiianity and Wesstern Civilization are all in jeapardy and need all the help the world can give them.

[Mershon]

"There is no substance to those charges. They are made only to bring disrepute to the LC's because they are a particularly orthodox order."

To spread slander and besmirch the good names of the nine accusers, some priests in good standing with the Church, is a definite lack of charity. And to point someone to a Legionaries of Christ propaganda website is doing no one any favors either.

Certainly, you should be more concerned about yours and the posters children and the serious accusations (especially since Pope Benedict XVI's congregation recently re-opened the pending case against Maciel)and searching the truth than you are in spreading propaganda, aren't you?

Many who have reservations about the Legion and RC are orthodox, conservative Catholics who have seen their mindless, robot-like abuse of human freedom for what it is. Stop repeating the company line. It isn't Catholic.

[WriteOn]

More than one bishop has banned them from his diocese. I'm not sure what that means though. I believe Minneapolis and Columbus, Ohio. Of course that is off the top of my head.

[Mershon]

http://www.regainnetwork.org/

For another point of view. From ex-Legionaries and ex-RC. Many people in our diocese are homeschoolers who have had seriously problems and reservations with L of C tactics. They are orthodox Catholics with many children who needed to remove their family from these overly aggressive priests and recruitment tactics.

[saradippity]

Throughout the last 40 years many good ,devout catholics have left the church because of some real or perceived insult that hurt their egos. While I believe your friend was offended,I also know that if you open classes to one parent you must open them to all. With the abysmal catechesis most parents of grade/high schoolers had,added to the typical American demand to be heard and considered,I can see why the Legionaries do/did not want parents involving themselves in class reviews of the content of religious education. The state of catechesis is practically beyond repair and dialoguing is a waste of time at certain critical points. I hope that this new Pope will put something in place to expedite the catechesis of all Catholics.

I am sure she was allowed to read the books they used,wasn't she? If she wasn''t I would be more concerned. But in any case I believe all Catholics need to get behind Pope Benedict XVI or we will all go down with the Barque. Some of the remnant are thinking they can sit on a little piece of an ice floe and ride out the storm but I know it will melt and they will go down too.

I think the issue is Truth,the Pope thinks Truth is the issue,so let's get together and smother error with Truth.

[Mershon]

"I can see why the Legionaries do/did not want parents involving themselves in class reviews of the content of religious education."

The Second Vatican Council, as well as encyclicals by Pope John Paul II and the pre-Vatican II popes all state that parents are the primary teachers of their children. In fact, so important is this duty, that it is "nearly impossible" to dedicate completely this task to others.

It sounds like the Legion of Christ, who also allow minors to "incorporate" into their movement without parents' consent, is in violation of Catholic teaching, and of common sense regarding a parents natural right to "delegating" responsibility of teaching of their children.

[hispanichoosier]

I believe Minneapolis and Columbus, Ohio

You're right. However, neither Bishop Flynn (Minneapolis) nor Bishop Campbell (Columbus) is known as an outspoken champion of orthodoxy. Had Bishop Burkewitz or Francis Cardinal George banned the L of C from his respective diocese, then I may be more concerned.

The fact is, the complaints against Fr. Maciel have been trotted out every so often to besmirch the L of C. The Congregation for Priests in Rome is investigating the complaints and has yet to find that Fr. Maciel has done anything wrong.

Bishop Flynn banned the L of C from his diocese because he thought that the L of C parishes were akin to a "parallel church." Apparently Bishop Flynn seems to think that those who attend L of C parishes have an "us-versus-them" attitude.

[Mark in the Old South]

The woman is not American by birth but she is very devout Catholic as is her elderly mother. The issue as I understand it was not about class material, grades or the usual stuff that cause Parent/Teacher conflicts it was visiting the boys. We are talking about seeing her own children. Make excuses for them if you like but I am telling you you are loosing me if you are going to try to defend that.

This is not seminary students or a cloistered monks (adult men) but school age children with a mother that has a large family with one son at the SSPX seminary and she has plans/hopes of another son being a monk and a daughter becoming a nun. In other words a very committed Catholic mother who would be on the side of any recruitment efforts the Legionnaires may like to make of her children.

As to any books they used, it wasn't the issue. It was visiting her children, making eye contact, asking them how they are doing. Now that I think of it what started her pressuring them for an answer as to why, was denying her ability to talk with them over the phone. Is this reasonable? I do not think so, I know this woman if they wanted to limit it for some reason (ie. recruitment for the priesthood) she would have been on board, but a complete cut off, I do not think so.

This wasn't the first I had heard this (a book on the scandals in the Church) The authors were liberal IMO. As a result they have been criticized and accused of the same sort of overbearing manner by the left MSM and a very conservative first hand account.

As a result of this you will need to provide a little detail of your own before you will be able to override my opinion of them. Just what is your connection with them? You know mine and how I formed my evaluation.

[saradippity]

I am not against parents knowing and being responsible for their children's education. I just suspect much of this is the result of being questioned about every little statement that they don't understand of agree with. Sometimes too much input can be very counter=productive when one has a mission to accomplish.

i think some open houses,parent/teacher conferences,reading the children's text books and questioning children on what they are learning should be sufficient.

Look at how we like-minded Freepers can misunderstand each other and can hassle for weeks,months and years over some thing that is quite nonessential. And these are Freepers who claim to be orthodox,conservative,traditional Catholics. My sympathies lie with any order or parish that is trying to teach Truth in these perilous times,we don't have the luxury of interminable discussions,sometimes we have to pray and trust.

However,I would insist on knowing the exact content of any classes they would be presenting on sex education,other than that I would try to avoid interference.Catholic schools did a magnificent job of educating students for centuries,I think it correlates with teaching Truth and praying a lot.

[saradippity]

Before I continue,I need some clarification. If they were at boarding school and she was not allowed to schedule any visits with them,then I am inclined to agree that it was wrong. I thought they were attending a neighborhood or day school. Can you tell me what type of school we are talking about? Thanks.

[Mark in the Old South]

It was boarding school I assume. The issue stared off not letting her talk with them. When that persisted she wanted to visit, when that was denied she went to talk with the administration. If they were coming home each night or on weekends it would never have come to this point.

I would not trust them with any child.

[Mark in the Old South]

P.S. I notice you did not provide details on your connection with them. That is telling in my book.

[saradippity]

You know what they say about assuming.

In any case,my connection is very tangential. I know the parents of a Legionary, they are intelligent,holy and orthodox Catholics, they say the Legionaries are too.

I also know a man who left the Legionaries because they were too demanding. Required lots of work. He is a nice guy and a good prayer warrior but I do notice that at the end of his day he is exhausted. He is a junior high school teacher. I believe that it was his statements and observing him that made me a fan of the Legionaries. I think he babies himself a whole lot. It all fits.

Finally,I subscribe to the National Catholic Register and find their Catholic teaching excellent and the paper quite fair and balanced,usually.

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "You know what they say about assuming"

Don't get too caught up in the wording. The children were not coming home each night, no assumption there. Also you are basing you opinion on one good man (that in of itself is an assumption) and their own publication. By the way propaganda is a Catholic term used by the Church long before it became a pejorative. Have you asked your friend if he would send his children to them? It might be interesting what he may tell you. Just ask the question without details, a just wondering if they would be good, kind of approach. He may surprise you.

[old and tired]

I don't know a thing about the Legionnaires, but I will caution that even if that one woman was told they were brainwashing her children, that may have been just one person's statement, or indicative of that particular school of the Legionnaires. It may not be indicative of the Legionnaires as a whole.

[Mark in the Old South]

Please reread my posts. She was not the first.

[bornacatholic]

The Second Vatican Council, as well as encyclicals by Pope John Paul II and the pre-Vatican II popes all state that parents are the primary teachers of their children. In fact, so important is this duty, that it is "nearly impossible" to dedicate completely this task to others.

*Amen, brother. Too few know this