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To: jboot
There is no evidence that Mary was either sinful

True, except by some measure of deductive reasoning. In the Magnificat, I recall she said something about her Savior. One who is sinless has no need of a Savior.

52 posted on 04/21/2005 8:27:07 AM PDT by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.)
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To: newgeezer
In the Magnificat, she said something about (Jesus being) her Savior. One who is sinless has no need of a Savior.

I agree. Scripture makes no explicit mention of Mary's sinfulness (or lack thereof), but the implication that she herself believes that she needs a savior is telling.

I wish that the church would content itself with calling her blessed and direct its excess energy into devotion to her Son. After all, without Him, she (and we) would be nothing.

BTW, I came in 100% for conservative Protestant BUT I also got 94% for Roman Catholic. When you boil down the doctrine, that is actually about right.

55 posted on 04/21/2005 10:01:01 AM PDT by jboot (Faith is not a work)
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To: newgeezer

"True, except by some measure of deductive reasoning. In the Magnificat, I recall she said something about her Savior."

I don't think that really holds up. When Mary said,

Magnificat anima mea Dominum;
My soul doth magnify ["declare the greatness of"] the Lord.

Et exsultavit spiritus meus in Deo, Salutari meo.
And my spirit rejoiceth; in God my Saviour.

This was prior to the Nativity, remember. IOW, she was speaking as a one-God-in-one-person monotheistic Jew, not a one-God-in-three-persons monotheistic Christian.

As a Jew, she had specific beliefs about the relationship of God to the Jews, and it is from this that the meaning of "savior" must be taken. It doesn't mean the same thing that Christians mean by it today.

Speaking of deductive reasoning, that is the basis of the assertion of the Immaculate Conception. It is reasoned that God would not allow Jesus to be conceived and gestated in the womb of a person who suffered the effects of Original Sin.

Oh, and also, sometimes Mary identifies herself as "The Immaculate Conception."


61 posted on 04/21/2005 9:19:02 PM PDT by dsc
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