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To: Canticle_of_Deborah; Kolokotronis; kosta50
Orthodox monasticism is not about service to the community or humanitarian projects. One becomes a monastic in order to seek personal salvation -- this much is true, and I suspect that this is what kosta was getting at (although I may be wrong.)

But on the other hand, the way that this salvation is sought and worked out is through life in community.

The Orthodox Church lives by the words of the Scriptures: "It is not good for man to live alone." There are two paths recommended by the Church to seek theosis: marriage and monasticism. Both are lived out in community. While solitary life in the world certainly happens, this is a reflection of the world's falleness. Orthodox parishes tend to bend over backwards to reach out to those who are alone (widowed, never married, etc...), knowing that everyone needs a family.

There are, as Kolokotronis points out, isolated cases of people going straight to the hermetic life (such as St. Mary of Egypt), but for every case of this in the Orthodox tradition, there are several examples of people who were deeply deluded, and who sometimes lost their salvation because they tried this too soon. Within community, strong efforts are made for monastics essentially never to be alone, certainly not alone with their own thoughts. Daily confession of thoughts to an elder is a hallmark of Orthodox monasticism, and this is because of the dangers of spiritual delusion.

Only when someone is extremely accomplished in the coenobitic life is solitary life even contemplated. Only when one able to be in the "communion of the saints" (in which case one is still really not alone), is the life of a hermit blessed by a spiritual father. Before this, it is too dangerous. If we can't learn to survive the temptations of rubbing shoulders with others, we won't survive the demons in the desert...

74 posted on 04/17/2005 9:19:12 PM PDT by Agrarian
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To: Agrarian

Maybe I'm having trouble making my point. I am speaking of actual phases in the process along the lines of St. John of the Cross' Ascent of Mt. Carmel and Dark Night. I haven't read The Ladder yet so I can't make a cross reference.

You have many good thoughts in your post with which I agree.


76 posted on 04/17/2005 11:57:19 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Agrarian; Canticle_of_Deborah; Kolokotronis; AlbionGirl; bornacatholic
Monasticism is the backbone of Orthodoxy, thanks to St. Gregory Palamas. It is the heart of its doctrine. It is the source of its bishops. The concept of true Orthodoxy is best expressed by an unlikely man, Leo Tolstoy, and his short story about the Three Hermits. I highly recommend that you read it unless you already have -- in which case you know what I am talking about.

Having said that, I will also say that our ultimate goal is to fulfill the Commandments -- to love God with all our heart and mind and soul and our neighbor as ourselves. That means God comes first and foremost, before all else, before earthly possessions, before wife, children, anyone and anything, and we completely surrender to that "Thy will be done" in peace and readiness and joy, unattached to anything earthly and material. None of us is there yet!

Placing God as the sole source of our attachment, by definition, excludes everything esle, so the path towards God is not a communal effort, but a personal journey on a narrow path and "few shall find it."

No, we are not meant to be alone -- but who is alone with God? God is everywhere and all the time? Feeling alone means we have shut Him out of our lives and need material distractions and pleasures and company. And then we complain that "God is distant"(?).

Becoming God-centered and developing disinterest in worldly things is an anathema to the people who enjoy "lateral salvation" approach. The church, not God, become the center of their spiritual life, friends, entertainment, and so on. In some western communities, the church becomes something you shop for. And, it is my understanding, this "personal" approach is not so foreign to American Orthodoxy either.

I am sorry if I come across as someone who is disinterested and unimpressed with communal life -- I do go to church when I can, in order to receive the Mysteries because that's where they are given. Where else can I go? I don't go to church to meet friends and find entertainment. The church is not my social life -- I don't confuse my earthly relationships with my spiritual life. And I don't particularly care about the "rite" either -- the manner in which we worship God in a church. Rather, it's very much something so well illustarted in the Three Hermits. Rites and rituals are human inventions and I like some more than others, but I attach no specific "sanctity" to human art, which all worship is to a large degree. In fact, I don't really know all the hymns by number or name. Maybe one day a good bishop will teach me how to serve God too.

And when I repent and ask for forgiveness for my weakness and lack of stronger faith, and I do dozens of times every single day of my life, and when I clumsily confess before God and a venerable father, and receive his blessings, and then receive the Eucharist, all I can say is "Thank You" and feel tears in my eyes. Oh no, the Eucharist does not transform me into anything Christ-like. I am sure of that, contrary to +Ratzinger and all my faithful friends here. But if it transforms you, I am happy for you. You are much more deserving of it than I am.

Our salvation, our theosis, can only be exclusive and personal. Our salvation does not depend on how sociable or popular or "good" we are, but how repentful we are. In the end, our salvation will not be "earned" but granted.

Placing God in the focus and center of our lives does not mean becoming antisocial. To the contrary. You see other people as beings with souls, even if you hate their sins, and you pray that perhaps one day their souls, rather than their corrupt nature will prevail. Loving your enemy because he or she is also a being with a soul that can be transformed, and earnestly praying for them, is the ultimate expression of faith. As Christ said, loving those who love you, what effort is that?

Consumed by God, we can only do good. Neither one of us will sin, nor wish evil on anyone, nor hurt anyone's feelings, nor keep a grudge, nor seek revenge. But neither will we be become attached to, or selfish of anything of this world. In the end it all goes back to God.

To reach that stage, one cannot decide one day to be "good." One cannot say "I will pray for my enemies" and mean it. It has to come from within. And it comes from within when we have been transformed and internalized that here and now is only a moment. When we think of some of the friends or crushes we had in high school, as consuming and important as they appeared at the time, and how utterly meaningless and perhaps even pathetic they seem now, can we appreciate that no one is as good as we think, and that nothing that will pass even comes close to God; no person, no possession, nothing. It will all vanish sooner or later. Let's just hope that when it happens to us (for we die alone even if we die as a group), we have not left out God by a minimalist approach of "lateral salvation".

82 posted on 04/18/2005 4:14:36 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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