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POPE'S DEATH AND CATHOLICISM'S PROSPECTS IN RUSSIA
Novosti ^ | April 4, 2005 | Pyotr Romanov

Posted on 04/04/2005 10:01:53 AM PDT by annalex

MOSCOW, April 4. (RIA Novosti political commentator Pyotr Romanov) - It seems the only place the pope wanted but could not visit was Moscow. His patience was boundless, but he did not live long enough to see changes in the Russian Orthodox Church.

He, however, was open to the whole world, including Russians. It turned out that establishing contacts with the secular authorities of the new Russia was much easier than with the hierarchs of the Russian Church. The pontiff received Gorbachev, Yeltsin and Putin, the latter of whom has sent the Vatican an unusual letter of condolences. More than a matter of protocol, it was warm and sincere, evidently expressing the President's respect for John Paul II.

Polish-born Karol Wojtyla was the first pope since the Apostles to enter a synagogue. He called Jews the elder brothers of Christians and prayed at the Wailing Wall. As the head of the Catholic Church, he visited a mosque and almost every country, including Orthodox ones, but was not allowed to pray in only one place, Moscow. The pope respected the Christian canons and waited for the Russian Church to change its mind. He has been waiting until his death.

It is not for me to reach a conclusion on the reasons behind the inflexibility of the Church leaders, but their formal explanations about Catholics seizing Orthodox houses of worship are not particularly convincing. In fact, the Vatican could make similar claims in many cases, as in the 20th century and even earlier many temples changed their terrestrial owners several times, all the while serving the same celestial Father. A papal visit to Moscow could have resolved half the contradictions.

I am almost certain that the first Slavic pope was not allowed to the Russian Church's congregation for the same reason that earlier had driven the Communist Party to cover up Western voices: the fear of comparison.

The point is that the Catholic Church was lucky: a man of the greatest moral authority andcharisma occupied its throne, whose personal influence was far greater than that of the Church itself. No matter how much the sick Russian Orthodox Church might have wanted, it could not find his equal, as it had still not made a full recovery after the decades of persecution under the Soviet authorities. Orthodox hierarchs could not bear the thought of the pope in a crowded Moscow square or, even worse, in the Christ the Savior Cathedral. After all, they are only human.

It also explains the unhealthy, not so much religious, as human, response to any movement of the Catholic Church in Russia, even though this competition is not about oil or aluminum, but human souls, which in a democratic country are expected to choose freely. The words "shepherd" and "flock" are just images, because people are obviously not sheep. People that have a right to choose, i.e., to enter the church they want.

I believe that Russia has missed a historic opportunity for rapprochement with the Catholics and, consequently, with much of Western culture. The last man of power in Russia who seriously preached ecumenism and rapprochement with the Catholics was Emperor Paul I of Russia. The last pontiff who perceived Russia, its contradictions and spiritual trials so shrewdly was John Paul II. It was not coincidence that he prayed before a Russian icon as well others.

There are few chances that an equal to the late pontiff will succeed him. After all, when he was a student, some jokers put a sign "beginner saint" - and it seems justly - on his door.

An ordinary archbishop will most probably succeed this rock of a person, who was not afraid to voice words of apology for the Catholic Church's previous sins. A person educated and worthy, but without the traits Karol Wojtyla had. There are people who cannot be replaced.

Certainly, the new pontiff will not be a Slav, and the relations between Moscow and the Roman throne will enter the usual bureaucratic dimension. Delegations will visit each other, agree on something, sign something and mark time.

In other words, a person of the 21st century, the late John Paul II, will be replaced by a person of the 20th century, who will hardly bring about any breakthrough in the future.

As a result, everyone will lose: the Vatican, whose authority will decline inevitably and quickly, Catholicism on the whole, Catholics in Russia and, naturally, the Russian Orthodox Church, which has lost a huge incentive for self-improvement. This is regrettable, as even many Orthodox priests admit that complete recovery is still a distant possibility.

Once John Paul II was asked whether he ever cried, and he said, "Never outside."

Today, a significant part of humanity, regardless of religion, is crying both inside and outside. Everyone in his or her own manner. Together and on their own. Karol Wojtyla deserved this.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic; johnpaulii; moscow; orthodox; papacy; pope; russia; russianorthodox
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To: jb6; kosta50
Let's just ignore these posters and move on. Why spend time here answering worthless questions?

What kinds of questions are worthless?

"Ironic, smart-aleck questions; questions designed to reinforce a self-image of being a rebel and questioner; rhetorical questions; questions designed to trap or humiliate another person."

181 posted on 04/08/2005 6:13:45 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
tsunami

Island Tsunami Survivors Getting Help After Earthquake

IOCC is working with Church World Service to provide such critical items as tents, medicines, water purification equipment and sanitation facilities to survivors in the capital city of Gunung Sitoli and other affected areas of Nias island.

The relief items are being prepared in Medan, where IOCC’s relief operations are centered, and include medicine boxes, 1,000 packages of non-food items (mattresses, blankets, etc.), 500 family tents, and water purification systems.

Monday’s earthquake killed hundreds of people, according to news reports, and damaged up to 80 percent of the buildings in Gunung Sitoli. It was the second major earthquake to hit Indonesia in three months.

Since the Dec. 26, 2004, earthquake, IOCC and its partners have been providing life-sustaining assistance to survivors in Sri Lanka, Indonesia and Thailand.

That assistance includes nearly 300 medicine boxes, each with enough medical supplies for 1,000 adults and children for up to three months; fresh food parcels for people living in temporary camps and private homes on the east coast of Sumatra; thousands of health, hygiene and school kits; and $1.1 million in multi-vitamins, enough to provide 53,000 adults with a daily dose for a month.

Daskalakis and Fr. Chrysostomos Manalu, an Orthodox priest, traveled to Nias island in late January to distribute food and school supplies to people left homeless by the first earthquake and tsunami. “The places where I was are now flattened, completely flattened,” he said after Monday’s earthquake. “It was like a bomb had hit.”

IOCC will continue to support local relief efforts, as well as rehabilitation and reconstruction projects, primarily in Indonesia, in the months to come.

182 posted on 04/08/2005 6:17:59 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Orthodox Charity Refectory

Every day, without holidays or break, the doors of the refectory are open for anyone needing help. There are quite a few people. More than 1400 people a day — invalids, pensioners, children from underprivileged families with many children, all kinds of needy people receive free meals here. More than 600 elderly, ill, and bedridden people receive their meals at home with the help of social workers. Some people are given day rations on a weekly basis.

183 posted on 04/08/2005 6:19:53 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
project mexico and st innocent orphanage

Since 1988, Project Mexico has been involving young people in the alleviation of suffering by building homes for Mexico's poor. In 1996 our outreach expanded through the opening of St. Innocent Orthodox Orphanage in Tijuana which provides a home for teenaged boys who live on the streets or who have been put out of other orphanages and would otherwise be left to fend for themselves. In operation only six years, it was named one of the top three institutions in the state for 2001. St. Innocent Orphanage is the only facility dedicated to teenaged boys in Tijuana and one of only four in the entire country of Mexico.

184 posted on 04/08/2005 6:22:04 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Hogar rafael

There is a child in our parish adopted from this orphanage.

185 posted on 04/08/2005 6:26:34 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode; jb6
And just for your information, a few years ago jb6 was in another country and asked us to collect for an orphanage nearby.

My parish collected and sent about $900.
Many other freepers here also sent things, clothing, toys, and money. Most of them were Orthodox.

186 posted on 04/08/2005 6:31:54 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
You're chock full of remarkable nonsense.

And I guess you are a wealth of information in your postings. Not.

187 posted on 04/08/2005 6:33:39 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
oca

CONTRACTS FOR FOOD WITH THE US DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

After several meetings with the Department of Agriculture, two contracts were signed with them for food distribution by Brother's Brother Foundation (a private voluntary organization with the Government) in which the Orthodox Church in America and the Russian Orthodox Church had key roles.

1. The first contract was for 2,000 tons of dried milk to go to school children in St. Petersburg. In this contract the Russian Orthodox Church was designated as co-receiver of the milk. The role of the Church in this instance was to help monitor the distribution of the milk. Fr. Daniel Hubiak, our OCA representative in Russia, and Fr. Vladimir Sorokin, head of the Humanitarian Relief for the Church in St. Petersburg, met the first shipment of 400 tons that came by plane on February 10, 1992 and participated in the initial distribution. Fr. Sorokin will continue to help monitor the distribution of milk as it comes. Fr. Hubiak will check back periodically to see how the distribution is going.

2. In Washington, on February 10, 1992, the OCA entered into formal agreement to provide $17 million in food supplies to Russia. Representatives of the US Department of Agriculture and Brother's Brother Foundation signed the contract. Jonathan Russin, OCA legal counsel, and Rev. Constantine White of St. Nicholas Cathedral were present for the signing. A sub-contract outlining the roles of the Orthodox Church in America and the Russian Orthodox Church was then signed by Metropolitan Theodosius, Patriarch Aleksy II and Mr. Luke Hingson.

This contract provided for the shipping of 12,000 tons of food to Russia as part of President Bush's initiative to provide $165 million in food aid. The food included dried milk, infant formula, vegetable oil, beans, peas, lentils, flour, rice, and butter. It was shipped by sea and went to five cities in Russia as designated among the most needy by the US Government: Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kaliningrad, Ufa and Chelyabinsk (east of the Urals). The food began to arrive in May and was distributed by the Russian Orthodox Church with the help of the OCA through its representative, Fr. Hubiak.

188 posted on 04/08/2005 6:36:51 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
And here is a listing of stories of parishes and the outreach programs they have developed, from my church website.

Our parish is in downtown Seattle in an area with a lot of transients and homeless. We feed them every single Sunday, and we hand out grocery cards to any one of them who knocks on the door where our priest is during the week.

189 posted on 04/08/2005 6:41:08 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: wideawake
Here's a little difference: India is a prime example: the Orthodox church sets up orphanages and soup kitchens for all poor people, regardless of faith. They teach the children a skill so they can feed themselves too. At no time are they pressured to convert. Some do on their own many don't and go on with life. That's what real charity is.

Oh and as for S.Africa, most of those parishes contacted the Church on their own post Apartide.

190 posted on 04/08/2005 7:37:37 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
The Orthodox have an incredibly poor record of missionary and humanitarian activity.

Yeah, you're so right, we'll just ignore eastern Europe, Russia, central Asia, southern India, northern China (most Orthodox were killed off by Mao), Korea, Alaska, ne United States, eastern Africa, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc etc. Difference is, genius: while you had free reign to run around, first Russia spent 200 years under Mongol domination and another 300 reclaiming her lands from Catholic domination, then the rest of Orthodox European lands and ME lands spent from 400 to 1300 years under Islamic domination.

But you're good at ignoring the facts or just making them up.

191 posted on 04/08/2005 7:47:22 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
In the tsunami affected areas that I was in, I did not seen any evidence of Orthodox activity whatsoever.

Wow, that's great, maybe you should have traveled more. My Church raised almost $10K for the relief. Sent to India and Indonesia.

192 posted on 04/08/2005 7:48:43 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
the Church in Russia hasn't been this independent since the time of Peter the Great.

Bwahahah! You're chock full of remarkable nonsense. Peter the Great turned the Russian Orthodox Church into a department of the State. But I bet you have a far-fetched apology for that too.

Obviously reading comprehension escapes you. That was the point I was making. Peter the Great ended the independent church so since his time the Church hasn't been independent, which it is now.

You're so filled with a desire to find fault you're bending over backwards. Very Christian of you.

193 posted on 04/08/2005 7:51:10 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: Cronos

Actually what he changed was the mistakes in the text back to the originals (nothing like 200 years of Mongol Yoke to create "typos").


194 posted on 04/08/2005 8:11:25 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: kosta50
the Orthodox don't proselytize

Actually we do and are active in Asia, Africa and S.America. The difference is in the way you do it and in how you approach charity. There is no door to door stuff or street cornor screaming. Instead, the Church moves in and starts building soup kitchens and schools and orphanages and hospitals. The Word then spreads from there to those who want to learn.

195 posted on 04/08/2005 8:14:11 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: Cronos
The fact that there are any christians at all is thank tot he martyrs -- remember that the church is built on the blood or martyrs

Dear friend, you missed the other half of my post. Korea is a much greater Christian success story than Japan -- without martyrdom.

The fact that there are a few thousand Christians in Japan is a miracle considering its culture. Most Japanese are not even pagan; they are outright atheist. Those who say they believe will tell you that God and nature are one and the same and that when we die we become gods. Concepts of "morality" are tied to social order and conformity for the good of the society.

196 posted on 04/08/2005 2:10:02 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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To: jb6
There is a difference between Orthodox missions of mercy and proselytizing of the West. As you pointed out earlier, we do not pressure to convert. This can not be said of our "other Lung."

You hit the key note when you said "The Word then spreads from there to those who want to learn." God leaves us the freedom to choose and so does the Orthodox Church. Christ did not force anyone to believe in Him.

197 posted on 04/08/2005 2:14:55 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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To: jb6
My Church raised almost $10K for the relief. Sent to India and Indonesia.

That's great, but I didn't see any Orthodox. Met misssionaries, aid workers, and volunteers of almost every other religious denomination imaginable. But no Orthodox.

Anyway, I have this sad feeling that the above paragraph will fly right over your head just like the last time I said the same thing.

198 posted on 04/08/2005 6:50:46 PM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
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To: jb6
Russia spent 200 years under Mongol domination

You can thank your Russian princes for that.

199 posted on 04/08/2005 6:54:29 PM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
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To: wideawake
Which one of you is lying and which one is telling the truth?

They take shifts.

200 posted on 04/08/2005 6:57:16 PM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
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