Buffet-style faith dilutes pope's sway

Contra Costa Times ^ | 4/4/5 | Jack Chang and Lisa Vorderbrueggen

[SmithL]

U.S. Roman Catholics adored Pope John Paul II but vast numbers of the nation's 67 million parishioners openly disregard the pontiff's core teachings about abortion, divorce, extramarital sex and birth control.

But Catholics have become more conservative in recent years, a movement fueled, in part, by the growing numbers of more traditional Latino members. Church officials estimate Latinos will comprise half of the U.S. membership within a decade.

A majority of Catholics voted for President Bush, the first time a Republican presidential candidate has taken the Catholic vote. A historic union between conservative Protestants and Catholics helped re-elect Bush.

Catholic Joan Toth of Concord, for one, says she would like American Catholics to stop challenging long-held church doctrine on social issues.

"Some of the hierarchy have conflicting devotions," the 70-year-old said. "They're not supportive of traditional teachings."

It's too soon to know whether this conservative shift will transform American Catholics into more obedient servants of John Paul's teachings or those of the next pope.

Americans' propensity to treat their faith like a buffet, a spoonful of this and a "No, thanks" on that, has diluted the pope's power to dictate their behavior, said Steven Waldman, editor of beliefnet.org and former national editor of U.S. News and World Report.

"The pope is an extraordinarily beloved figure in the American Catholic community even though half of the community disagrees with him on abortion," Waldman said. "In the other direction, a large number of Catholics supported the Iraq War even though the pope opposed it.

"Catholics have the ability to make distinctions in their minds on these issues, and I'm not sure this pope, or the next one, can change that dynamic."

Many U.S. congregates challenge the Vatican by living typical American lives.

They divorce, use birth control and have abortions, although their church forbids the practices, and they clamor for a greater role for women in church leadership or support of gay marriage.

"American Catholicism has been pushing the envelope on many issues," said James Donahue, president of the Berkeley-based Graduate Theological Union, a school specializing in Christian and other teachings. "At the level of the hierarchy, bishops are very much in congress with the establishment. Some of the Catholics themselves are not."

But it's not just parishioners that disagree with the church; count American priests among those who question its doctrines.

Like Catholics around the world, the Rev. Richard Sparks, pastor at Newman Hall Holy Spirit parish in Berkeley, respected the pontiff as a "universal Christian person" who did much to encourage dialogue and understanding in a troubled world.

The priest just wishes his leader had also opened dialogue within the church itself, especially on issues such as divorce and birth control.

"Some Catholics hope that with the next pope, there will be less tension," Sparks said.

On the other side, the Rev. Luis Perez, a Spanish-speaking priest at Queen of All Saints Catholic Church in Concord, said he would like to see the next pope emphasize "the respect for life."

"Everyone wants people to live well and no one to suffer," he said.

[sinkspur]

No. The Church hierarchy has the problem. It's ludicrous to assert that the vast majority of Church-going Catholics are simply heathens and not people of good will and sincerity.

As someone has already said, we are well past the time when arguments from authority are convincing.

[Grey Ghost II]

It's ludicrous to assert that the vast majority of Church-going Catholics are simply heathens and not people of good will and sincerity.

Who called anybody "heathens"?

The Catholic Church is not, nor has it ever been, a democracy. If you want democracy in religion, find another church.

[jo kus]

"Father Corapi for Pope!"

LOL! Agreed, or someone like him, would be extremely beneficial to our church here in the US.

Regards

[jo kus]

"The Catholic Church is not, nor has it ever been, a democracy. If you want democracy in religion, find another church"

I hope you don't mean this...We are called to preach the Word of God to others, not kick them out of the Church.

I agree with sinkspur that the heirarchy has a problem which they have not addressed very well - educating the people in the pews. I am sure you are aware that the second largest denomination in Christianity is fallen-away Catholics...That tells us (I teach RCIA) that we have a ways to go to make the Church relevant to the man in the pew. This doesn't mean watering down the faith, etc. This means instilling in people the NEED for salvation from Christ; that happiness for today can only be achieved through Christ.

This is what the heirarchy has failed to do, although they have tried, with the Vatican 2 Document "The Church in the Modern World". However, rather than mentioning the obvious need, how about some practical advice to us lay people who actually care? "Our hearts were burning within us" is another document from the US Bishops that offers obvious sentiments, but no practical solutions.

How about getting some more people to reflect on the parable of the Talents, for example (Mt 25)? Notice who went to hell? Not the evil guy, but the guy who did nothing. The "good" guy who does nothing with his "talents" is in peril of losing his soul. It's time our preachers grew some gonads and stopped worrying about offending someone and worrying about saving souls, esp. their own - he who is given much, much will be expected of him...

Thanks for your consideration and regards

[Grey Ghost II]

I hope you don't mean this...

I mean it from the depths of my heart.

I agree with sinkspur that the heirarchy has a problem which they have not addressed very well

I disagree with both you and sinkspur. BTW, sinkspur is part of that hierarchy you are referring to.

[Jaded]

Also known as "Our twice a year friends".

or for the more devoted: CAPES (Christmas, Ash Wednesday, Palm Sunday, Easter, Special Occasions)

[Jeff Chandler]

Sex between a husband and wife is sacred-a renewal of the marriage covenant, which is a reflection of the love between God the Father and God the Son. The love between the Father and the Son is so strong that it is an actual person-the Holy Spirit. The covenantal love between husband and wife is so strong that sometimes, nine months later, it has to be given a name.

The Church teaches that sex between husband and wife is sacred because of its obvious primary purpose: the creation of a human being in His image.
To make vulgar what is sacred is to profane the sacred, by definition. Artificial contraception does just that. That has been Christian doctrine until the twentieth century, at which point it became only Catholic doctrine.

The Church cannot change its doctrine on artificial contraceptives any more than it could change its doctrine on abortion or homosexuality. It has been the refusal of the clergy to shepherd the flock in the truth that has contributed to the flock's refusal to follow the truth. The catechesis on this and any number of other Church teachings has been dismal. The answer to Catholics' failing to live up to the doctine of Christ's Church is not to shrug "Oh well, they're going to do it anyway!"

Catholic couples who use NFP are the most joyful families you could imagine, probably because they are focused on creating "little churches", the Catholic concept of family. They strive to trust God, and God rewards them with holy children and solid, fulfilling marriages which last.

You write as if you don't know very many couples who practice NFP. They are quite easy to find. They are the parishioners who join Right-to-Life, who form Bible study and prayer groups. They're the ones who pray the rosary, genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament and attend Perpetual Adoration. You get the idea.

[Mo1]

They divorce, use birth control and have abortions, although their church forbids the practices, and they clamor for a greater role for women in church leadership or support of gay marriage.

The are also called liberals ..

[cyborg]

If someone doesn't like the commandment to be fruitful and multiply they can LEAVE and find another church.

[cyborg]

There's no genie out of the bottle on birth control. The people who aren't following church teaching that is also a biblical commandment (be fruitful and multiply) are being SINFUL. If a RC doesn't like that, they can find another church Maybe they'll be more at home in those step and fetchit churches where they can name and claim their blessing without any babies to inconvenience them. This attitude is so norte-americano as one priest put it to me once and it's DISGUSTING.

[cyborg]

bump!

[Petronski]

Biblical TRUTH is not the result of a Gallup poll, nor should it ever be.

[sinkspur]

This attitude is so norte-americano as one priest put it to me once and it's DISGUSTING.

It's not just norte-americano, cyborg.

If "be fruitful and multipy" is the commandment, then how can the Church approve of NFP or any method of regulating birth?

You know that the Church approves of regulating birth, and has since the Papacy of Pius XII.

[cyborg]

No artifical birth control... what else do you want to throw out the window sinkspur?

[sinkspur]

No artifical birth control... what else do you want to throw out the window sinkspur?

Stop being so defensive. I'm not pushing artificial birth control. But "do this because I say so" is not working. A better catechesis for NFP is needed.

[cyborg]

If the majority don't understand why the usage of artifical birth control is sinful after all these years, then there's no help for them. They want it because they're selfish and don't want children or the possibility because a baby interrupts their quest for more material goods.

[sinkspur]

They want it because they're selfish and don't want children or the possibility because a baby interrupts their quest for more material goods.

NFP does the same thing. Do you oppose NFP?

[cyborg]

NFP does NOT prevent the birth of a child when and wherever you please. It leaves open the possibility of having a child whereas artifical does not. How is it that you are a catholic and don't get this?

[jo kus]

I said..."I agree with sinkspur that the heirarchy has a problem which they have not addressed very well

You said..."I disagree with both you and sinkspur"

Well, what do you suggest? Really, do you think Christ is in favor of kicking people out of His Church? I don't get that from reading the Gospels. How do we, the laity, address this problem, if it is not a heirarchial problem?

I am not being sarcastic, I am open to any ideas to help get people back to Christ and where He takes on a real meaning in people's lives.

Regards

[cyborg]

Help me here. I don't seem to be getting through to sinkspur why the teaching on birth control is just fine the way it is. I think I'm not being articulate enough.