Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: sionnsar

"Every reputable continuing church that I know of has canons that state that the parish owns its property. So the bishop cannot lord it over a parish like, say, an episcopal or catholic bishop can."

Catholics live in a completely different world.

There isn't really any question of bishops "lording property rights over the parish". What Catholic believes, for an instant, that the parish church is anything but the local branch of the Church of Rome?

None.

Catholics just don't think like Anglicans.
Catholics know and accept, without much comment, that they are in an absolute monarchy. There is no "tug of war" in the Catholic Church over property, because there is very clear and absolute hierarchical power. The Pope can fire a bishop on a dime. The Pope can fire a priest. The Pope can do anything. There is no basis of authority independent of Rome.

And it's not an issue.
Anglicans can split into this group and that and war with each other, but Catholics? Their church has one policy, and only one policy, and if you are a priest or a bishop that is your policy too. Now, there are priests and bishops and laity who have some disagreements and skirt around the edges and test the limits, but the point is that there are limits. Anglicans are dealing with committees and conferences. Catholics have an absolute monarch.
To put it in historical terms: sometimes you can roll Congress, but nobody ever rolled Louis XIV.

Different worlds.
Some Catholics want some sort of changes in the Church, but there are is vehicle within the Church to organize and mount opposition to the Church, and the Church is what Rome says the Church is. Some bishops think otherwise. And from time to time they are removed and shipped off to monasteries, things like that.

Anglicans at least colorably have bargaining power and political power within their Church, and so they think that way. An Anglican could write of "bishops lording it over parishes". Catholics have no power at all and know it. Most would look at any notion that there should BE any power or democracy within the Church with deep suspicion and theological concern.

Bottom line: Catholics think that God made the Pope the absolute monarch of the Church, the bishops serve him, the priests serve them, and the laity have a theological obligation of obedience to the duly constituted authority above them. There is no place in the Church of God for democracy, at all, because what people think is not relevant. What God ordained was established by Tradition thousands of years ago. It can't be changed. It shouldn't be changed. There is nothing to vote ON. The parish belongs to the Church, which is ruled by the Pope.

A Catholic chooses to be in the Church or to leave the Church, but there just isn't the foundation in Catholic thought for resentment that the bishop "lords it over" the parish. Of course he does. That's his job.


7 posted on 04/06/2005 8:53:41 AM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: Vicomte13
What Catholic believes, for an instant, that the parish church is anything but the local branch of the Church of Rome?

One who doesn't understand their own faith very well?

My guess is you're either not a Catholic, or you have a fairly confused idea of "reality on the ground" in Catholicism.

Keep in mind that there are a billion Catholics. I'm not sure how many Latin Rite dioceses there are, but I'd guess it's in the low thousands.

The Vatican has about 1800 full-time employees. That's it ... for a billion faithful. This is an "org chart" unlike any you're used to. I'm a Catholic layman, employed by a medium sized corporation. There's about 7-8 layers of management between me and the CEO of my company. Religiously, however, there's 2 ... that's right, *2* layers of management between me and the Pope: my pastor (whom I can choose, for all intents and purposes) and my diocesan bishop.

(As it happens, both my diocese and the Roman See are vacant right now, so I guess technically it's me, my pastor, and God -- although both my diocese and Rome have temporary administrators who are functional for some purposes.)

The parish church is really supposed to be tightly controlled, not by Rome (which would be impossible), but by the diocesan bishop. He is almost always the final authority. It's absolutely true that the bishop "lords it over" the parish -- you're right, that is his job. St. Ignatius of Antioch, who knew the Apostles, said 2000 years ago that to celebrate the Eucharist "behind the bishop's back" (that is, apart from his authority) was equivalent to devil worship.

The Pope can fire a bishop on a dime.

Within the Latin Rite, it's possible in theory but rarely done in practice. There has to be some serious malfeasance involved.

The Pope can fire a priest.

Again, possible in theory but even less likely in practice, if the priest is a diocesan priest outside the diocese of Rome. Canon law provides procedures for doing stuff like this. In theory, the Pope could circumvent them -- he's the boss -- in practice, that isn't done.

The Pope can do anything. There is no basis of authority independent of Rome.

Ever heard of the concept of subsidiarity in Catholic thought? There's no basis of authority independent of Rome, in the same sense that there's no political authority *independent* of Washington within the USA. That doesn't imply that all decisions are, should, or even can be made in DC.

8 posted on 04/06/2005 9:29:59 AM PDT by Campion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson