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To: Romulus
Thank you for posting this. In Proverbs 8:36, the personification of Wisdom says: "All that hate me love death." (As an aside, do you know the history behind the name of the Hagia Sophia? I sure don't. I thought it was dedicated to Saint Sophia, but I recently learned that Christ himself is sometimes called the Holy Wisdom of God.)

I have been giving much thought to the place of senitmentalism in contemporary culture, and I bet it's related to this aversion to dependency. Romulus, I know you're familiar with O'Connor's line about tenderness leading to the gas chambers. I reread part of Saint John's depiction of Babylon the other day: "How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow." -Rev 18:7 Many ignore this vale of tears, comforting themselves with the Panglossian fiction that absolutely everything is for the best. Someone is severely brain damaged? No worries, her soul is in a better place. Someone's a mass murderer? No worries, he's not really a member of the human race.

Do the proud ever weep? "Proud weeping" sounds like an oxymoron to my ears. It seems to me the most human reaction to the realization that we are not in control, or at least that the world is not as it should be. Irony, camp, and stoicism kill off one's ability to mourn.

Does suffering have any iconic significance? I tend to say no, since that would imply that suffering reveals the nature of God , and as I recall patripassianism has been condemned as a heresy for saying just that. John Paul II's apostolic letter Salvici Doloris is an excellent examination of the matter.

Alisdair MacIntyre also made a study of human dependency in his _Dependent Rational Animals_, though it's quite flawed and one of his weaker works.

For the past five seasons, I've been through a crucifixion of my own. A chronic illness of unknown origin has left me quite dependent. Prayers would be much appreciated, and reciprocated.

24 posted on 03/30/2005 7:47:58 PM PST by Dumb_Ox (All is Whiggery now.)
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To: Dumb_Ox
I'll certainly remember you in my prayers. Thank you for honoring this thread with your contributions.

The identification of God’s Holy Wisdom with the eternal Logos through Whom all creation came into being is ancient and particularly strong in the Eastern Church. As you've already pointed out, Proverbs 8 speaks directly to a quality of personhood in God’s uncreated Wisdom. Here is that chapter in full, followed by two other equally striking old testament passages that look deep into Wisdom's presence in the Trinity:

Proverbs 8

Does not Wisdom call, and Understanding raise her voice? On the top of the heights along the road, at the crossroads she takes her stand; By the gates at the approaches of the city, in the entryways she cries aloud: "To you, O men, I call; my appeal is to the children of men. You simple ones, gain resource, you fools, gain sense. "Give heed! for noble things I speak; honesty opens my lips. Yes, the truth my mouth recounts, but the wickedness my lips abhor. Sincere are all the words of my mouth, no one of them is wily or crooked; All of them are plain to the man of intelligence, and right to those who attain knowledge. Receive my instruction in preference to silver, and knowledge rather than choice gold. (For Wisdom is better than corals, and no choice possessions can compare with her.) "I, Wisdom, dwell with experience, and judicious knowledge I attain. (The fear of the LORD is to hate evil;) Pride, arrogance, the evil way, and the perverse mouth I hate. Mine are counsel and advice; Mine is strength; I am understanding. By me kings reign, and lawgivers establish justice; By me princes govern, and nobles; all the rulers of earth. "Those who love me I also love, and those who seek me find me. With me are riches and honor, enduring wealth and prosperity. My fruit is better than gold, yes, than pure gold, and my revenue than choice silver. On the way of duty I walk, along the paths of justice, Granting wealth to those who love me, and filling their treasuries. "The LORD begot me, the first-born of his ways, the forerunner of his prodigies of long ago; From of old I was poured forth, at the first, before the earth. When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no fountains or springs of water; Before the mountains were settled into place, before the hills, I was brought forth; While as yet the earth and the fields were not made, nor the first clods of the world. "When he established the heavens I was there, when he marked out the vault over the face of the deep; When he made firm the skies above, when he fixed fast the foundations of the earth; When he set for the sea its limit, so that the waters should not transgress his command; Then was I beside him as his craftsman, and I was his delight day by day, Playing before him all the while, playing on the surface of his earth; and I found delight in the sons of men. "So now, O children, listen to me; instruction and wisdom do not reject! Happy the man who obeys me, and happy those who keep my ways, Happy the man watching daily at my gates, waiting at my doorposts; For he who finds me finds life, and wins favor from the LORD; But he who misses me harms himself; all who hate me love death."

The Book of Wisdom, Chapter 9

[Solomon -- the son of David -- speaks:]God of my fathers, LORD of mercy. you who have made all things by your word And in your wisdom have established man to rule the creatures produced by you, To govern the world in holiness and justice, and to render judgment in integrity of heart: Give me Wisdom, the attendant at your throne, and reject me not from among your children; For I am your servant, the son of your handmaid, a man weak and short-lived and lacking in comprehension of judgment and of laws. Indeed, though one be perfect among the sons of men, if Wisdom, who comes from you, be not with him, he shall be held in no esteem. You have chosen me king over your people and magistrate for your sons and daughters. You have bid me build a temple on your holy mountain and an altar in the city that is your dwelling place, a copy of the holy tabernacle which you had established from of old. Now with you is Wisdom, who knows your works and was present when you made the world; Who understands what is pleasing in your eyes and what is conformable with your commands. Send her forth from your holy heavens and from your glorious throne dispatch her That she may be with me and work with me, that I may know what is your pleasure. For she knows and understands all things, and will guide me discreetly in my affairs and safeguard me by her glory; Thus my deeds will be acceptable, and I shall judge your people justly and be worthy of my father's throne. For what man knows God's counsel, or who can conceive what our LORD intends? For the deliberations of mortals are timid, and unsure are our plans. For the corruptible body burdens the soul and the earthen shelter weighs down the mind that has many concerns. And scarce do we guess the things on earth, and what is within our grasp we find with difficulty; but when things are in heaven, who can search them out? Or who ever knew your counsel, except you had given Wisdom and sent your holy spirit from on high? And thus were the paths of those on earth made straight, and men learned what was your pleasure, and were saved by Wisdom.

Sirach, Chapter 24

[A great text for the Feast of the Annunciation] Wisdom sings her own praises, before her own people she proclaims her glory; In the assembly of the Most High she opens her mouth, in the presence of his hosts she declares her worth: "From the mouth of the Most High I came forth, and mistlike covered the earth. In the highest heavens did I dwell, my throne on a pillar of cloud. The vault of heaven I compassed alone, through the deep abyss I wandered. Over waves of the sea, over all the land, over every people and nation I held sway. Among all these I sought a resting place; in whose inheritance should I abide? "Then the Creator of all gave me his command, and he who formed me chose the spot for my tent, Saying, 'In Jacob make your dwelling, in Israel your inheritance.' Before all ages, in the beginning, he created me, and through all ages I shall not cease to be. In the holy tent I ministered before him, and in Zion I fixed my abode. Thus in the chosen city he has given me rest, in Jerusalem is my domain. I have struck root among the glorious people, in the portion of the LORD, his heritage. "Like a cedar on Lebanon I am raised aloft, like a cypress on Mount Hermon, Like a palm tree in En-gedi, like a rosebush in Jericho, Like a fair olive tree in the field, like a plane tree growing beside the water. Like cinnamon, or fragrant balm, or precious myrrh, I give forth perfume; Likegalbanum and onycha and sweet spices, like the odor of incense in the holy place. I spread out my branches like a terebinth, my branches so bright and so graceful. I bud forth delights like the vine, my blossoms become fruit fair and rich. Come to me, all you that yearn for me, and be filled with my fruits; You will remember me as sweeter than honey, better to have than the honeycomb. He who eats of me will hunger still, he who drinks of me will thirst for more; He who obeys me will not be put to shame, he who serves me will never fail."

25 posted on 03/31/2005 1:25:50 PM PST by Romulus (Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?)
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