Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: sionnsar
Ah, there you made me go read again! I think what these Anglican bishops are doing is misinterpreting remarks of the Fathers in the nature of "Schism is worse than heresy". What the Fathers are talking about is the condemnation of those who cause a schism by means of a heretical teaching or even more likely and perhaps more seriously, because of a "lust for power". Thus, St. John Chrysostomos writes in his Homily XI on Ephesians 4:4-7,

"Moral. If therefore we desire to have the benefit of that Spirit which is from the Head, let us cleave one to another. For there are two kinds of separation from the body of the Church; the one, when we wax cold in love, the other, when we dare commit things unworthy of our belonging to that body; for in either way we cut ourselves off from the "fullness of Christ." But if we are appointed to build up others also, what shall not be done to them who are first to make division? Nothing will so avail to divide the Church as love of power. Nothing so provokes God's anger as the division of the Church. Yea, though we have achieved ten thousand glorious acts, yet shall we, if we cut to pieces the fullness of the Church, suffer punishment no less sore than they who mangled His body. For that indeed was brought to pass for the benefit of the world, even though it was done with no such intention; whereas this produces no advantage in any case, but the injury is excessive. These remarks I am addressing not to the governors only, but also to the governed. Now a certain holy man said what might seem to be a bold thing; yet, nevertheless, he spoke it out. What then is this? He said, that not even the blood of martyrdom can wash out this sin? For tell me for what dost thou suffer as a martyr? Is it not for the glory of Christ? Thou then that yieldest up thy life for Christ's sake, how dost thou lay waste the Church, for whose sake Christ yielded up His life? Hear what Paul saith, "I am not meet to be called an Apostle (1 Cor. 15:9), because I persecuted the Church of God and made havoc of it." (Gal. 1:13) This injury is not less than that received at the hands of enemies, nay, it is far greater. For that indeed renders her even more glorious, whereas this, when she is warred upon by her own children, disgraces her even before her enemies. Because it seems to them a great mark of hypocrisy, that those who have been born in her, and nurtured in her bosom, and have learned perfectly her secrets, that these should of a sudden change, and do her enemies' work.

I mean these remarks for those who give themselves up indiscriminately to the men who are dividing the Church. For if on the one hand those men have doctrines also contrary to ours, then on that account further it is not right to mix with them: if, on the other hand, they hold the same opinions, the reason for not mixing with them is greater still. And why so? Because then the disease is from lust of authority. Know ye not what was the fate of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram? (Num. 16:1-35) Of them only did I say? Was it not also of them that were with them? What wilt thou say? Shall it be said, "Their faith is the same, they are orthodox as well as we"? If so, why then are they not with us? There is "one Lord, one faith, one baptism." If their cause is right, then is ours wrong; if ours is right, then is theirs wrong. "Children," saith he, "tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind." Tell me, dost thou think this is enough, to say that they are orthodox? Is then the ordination of clergy past and done away? And what is the advantage of other things, if this be not strictly observed? For as we must needs contend for the faith; so must we for this also. For if it is lawful for any one, according to the phrase of them of old, "to fill his hands," and to become a priest, let all approach to minister. In vain has this altar been raised, in vain the fullness of the Church, in vain the number of the priests. Let us take them away and destroy them. "God forbid!" ye will say. You are doing these things, and do ye say, "God forbid"? How say ye, "God forbid," when the very things are taking place? I speak and testify, not looking to my own interest, but to your salvation. But if any one be indifferent, he must see to it himself; if these things are a care to no one else, yet are they a care to me. "I planted," saith he, "Apollos watered, but God gave the increase." (1 Cor. 3:6) How shall we bear the ridicule of the Greeks? For if they reproach us on account of our heresies, what will they not say of these things? "If they have the same doctrines, if the same mysteries, wherefore does a ruler in one Church invade another? See ye," say they, "how all things amongst the Christians are full of vainglory? And there is an ambition among them, and hypocrisy. Strip them," say they, "of their numbers, and they are nothing. Cut out the disease, the corrupt multi-rode." Would ye have me tell what they say of our city, how they accuse us on the score of our easy compliances? Any one, say they, that chooses may find followers, and would never be at a loss for them. Oh, what a sneer is that, what a disgrace are these things! And yet the sneer is one thing, the disgrace is another. If any amongst us are convicted of deeds the most disgraceful, and are about to meet with some penalty, great is the alarm, great is the fear on all sides, lest he should start away, people say, and join the other side. Yea, let such an one start away ten thousand times, and let him join them. And I speak not only of those who have sinned, but if there be any one free from offense, and he has a mind to depart, let him depart. I am grieved indeed at it, and bewail and lament it, and am cut to the very heart, as though I were being deprived of one of my own limbs; and yet I am not so grieved, as to be compelled to do anything wrong through such fear as this. We have "not lordship over your faith" (2 Cor. 1:24), beloved, nor command we these things as your lords and masters. We are appointed for the teaching of the word, not for power, nor for absolute authority. We hold the place of counselors to advise you. The counselor speaks his own sentiments, not forcing the hearer, but leaving him full master of his choice upon what is said; in this case alone is he blamable, if he fail to utter the things which present themselves. For this cause do we also say these things, these things do we assert, that it may not be in your power in that day to say, "No one told us, no one gave us commandment, we were ignorant, we thought it was no sin at all." Therefore I assert and protest, that to make a schism in the Church is no less an evil than to fall into heresy. Tell me, suppose a subject of some king, though he did not join himself to another king, nor give himself to any other, yet should take and keep hold of his king's royal purple, and should tear it all from its clasp, and rend it into many shreds; would he suffer less punishment than those who join. themselves to the service of another? And what, if withal he were to seize the king himself by the throat and slay him, and tear his body limb from limb, what punishment could he undergo, that should be equal to his deserts? Now if in doing this toward a king, his fellow-servant, he would be committing an act too great for any punishment to reach; of what hell shall not he be worthy who slays Christ, and plucks Him limb from limb? of that one which is threatened? No, I think not, but of another far more dreadful."

It seems to me that the words of the Fathers, many of whom both condemned schism, for the above reasons, yet also demanded separation from heretics (St. Gregory the Theologian, St. Basil the Great, St. Ignatius, etc.)have been high jacked by those very ones today who both preach heresy and lust after power. Their purpose, of course, is to hamstring the orthodox in their attempt to deal with the heresy. This isn't the first time this has happened in the modern era by the way. These types of charges were hurled back and forth in the Church of Russia/ROCOR battles since the Russian Revolution. This sermon of +John Chrysostomos really is quite remarkable in that it deals with so many of the issues which the AC right now is facing, right down to the nature of communion and "crossing diocesan boundaries".
6 posted on 03/26/2005 2:47:45 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]


To: Kolokotronis

Amazing. You are correct.


7 posted on 03/26/2005 3:07:27 PM PST by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || Iran Azadi || Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies ]

To: Kolokotronis
I'd just like to note for those who might not have read that entire, typically brillians +Chrystostom passage, the he says

"to make a schism in the Church is no less an evil than to fall into heresy." [my emphasis added]

So, even the appeal being made is falsely put, and by people supposedly educated in the faith.

I was just in a Catholic store, buying clerical gear, in Raleigh. Very nice people running it. One lady, who I learned was a nun (though, as now always, in ordinary attire, lest anyone think she might actually be a Bride of Christ, I fear), learned that I am Anglican and as I commented that, while once Roman and pre-Vatican II, I have become Anglican and pre-Tridentine. 'Ahh, the Dark Ages', she muttered. I muttered back, "The Light Ages to me, ma'am.".

It is the continuing wrangle and the strange immobility in the orthodox clergy that is making this another Dark Age and I agree with you both that this is a strangely Athanasian situation. My thanks to you both for this very informative and edifying exchange.

Well done, brothers.

In Christ,

Deacon Paul+

9 posted on 03/27/2005 3:10:39 AM PST by BelegStrongbow (Having a human friend is no bed of roses-but hobbits? That's very different. :))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson