[mike182d]

When or where? It seems you're making an assumption, jumping to conclusions based on your human understanding of how things should work.

Of course I'm making a presumption; every belief we have about Christ is a presumption. What I'm saying is that on what logical grounds can you claim that Judas didn't believe in Christ, but Andrew, Matthew, or even Peter did? And yet we presume they did...

[newgeezer]

on what logical grounds can you claim that Judas didn't believe in Christ, but Andrew, Matthew, or even Peter did?

I don't see any evidence in the Bible that Judas ever professed faith. You're the one saying he did, and basing it entirely on what you deem is "logical." Indeed, that's probably the same sort of logic that gives you a Mary who was immaculately conceived, perpetually sinless, perpetually virgin, and never experienced a bodily death.