I believe God will be just in His judgement. If a person was baptised by sprinkling and they in their hearts believed they were following the will of God, then God will judge them on that basis. I think if you really read the Bible, you should conclude that it should be done in the name of Jesus and by immersion.
"I believe God will be just in His judgement. If a person was baptised by sprinkling and they in their hearts believed they were following the will of God, then God will judge them on that basis"
Agreed. This, too, is catholic teaching. We are to follow our conscience - properly formed, of course.
"I think if you really read the Bible, you should conclude that it should be done in the name of Jesus and by immersion."
Again, I agree with you, it SHOULD be done that way. It is not any less effective, however, with sprinkling. God, not the water, is the catalyst. I ask you to recall the story of Naaman in the OT. "Is that all"? "Why are the waters of the Jordan any better". Then, he realized it was not the water itself, but the power of God that effected his healing.
Regards
"I think if you really read the Bible, you should conclude that it should be done in the name of Jesus and by immersion." AMEN, AMEN !!!!
to TheTruthess: lots of good posts, well done!
to arrogantduck: hope you've gotten thoroughly convinced on this subject. Here's some scraps from me, if you're still hungry.
TIME TO PREACH!
One thing that convinces me (but not as powerfully as my own conversion) is the knock down, drag out, effort of multitudes through the centuries to lessen the importance of baptism. A little child doesn't argue with Jesus. He commanded it, so do it. That's as much as believing in him as that he died, was buried, and was resurrected. His word and himself are inseperable. The emphasis is as plain as the scriptures that proclaim them.
The real problem of "just believe" (and saying that what He commanded is not important), is that by refuting the Lord's (and his apostles') demands on water baptism, is rebellion (knowingly or ignorantly) against God. The Bible says that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.
God demands faith, but through the history of man, has used different tests to prove they have it.
What if:
Able chose to not offer an acceptable sacrifice,
Abram chose to stay in Haran,
Noah chose not to build the ark,
Moses chose to stay with the sheep of his father-in-law,
David didn't repent after Uriah?
Their names would have been replaced by others in Hebrews chap. 11. We are in physical bodies, we cannot have faith without moving a muscle. Faith requires action!
WHAT ABOUT THIS PERSON, OR THAT SITUATION, ETC.? We can sit and judge souls til Jesus comes, and in that, be sinning, for that is God's job, not ours. When one knows the Truth, that person's job is to love and obey it, and be a witness to it. Emotion is good, but don't let it blurr one's vision!
The Word shows us HOW to believe.
I met my wife 26 and a half years ago, messed up on my first chance to find where she lived after being told to follow her home (she told me how to believe, so to speak). But with some determination (they that hunger and thirst) and a second witness to where her home was located, I found my way there. Guess what? I didn't have to be told those directions ever again. She would just say those magic words, "come on over" (believe) and I was there. (Yeah, I kinda ignored the posted speed limits, most of the time.)
WHAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO REMEMBER IS: THAT THE DEVIL NO DOUBT SAW THE COMMANDS OF BAPTISM, BY JESUS, PETER, PHILIP, ANINIAS, AND PAUL AS A MUST FOR SALVATION. HE PROMPTLY WENT ABOUT SOWING CONFUSION ON THE ISSUE. REMISSION OF SINS IS PARAMOUNT, AND SATAN KNOWS THIS. "BURIED WITH HIM" IS HOW YOU GET THE BLOOD APPLIED TO YOUR SOUL. THAT'S WHY THE SCRIPURES SAY IT IS FOR REMISSION OF SINS.
The Word is complete. The OT and the NT compliment each other. I had a correspondent tell me there is nothing in the OT to back up water baptism and it's essentiallity. I pointed out several types and shadows of " death, burial, and resurrection:
CREATION: the earth was void (lifeless, dead) and completely covered (buried) with water. God's spirit moved on the waters (if God's not in it, forget it) and life came forth.
THE FLOOD: The world was immersed water, the sins of the world were washed away. New life began again.
THE EXODUS: The people "were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea". 1 Cor.10:2. note the word "all".
THE TABERNACLE: The priests were to wash before being of any service to the Lord (or they would defile the sacrifice by their uncleanness).
NAMAAN THE SYRIAN: He at first mocked the command of dipping in the Jordan river. But when he obeyed (believed) his flesh (let's face it, as a leper, he was as good as dead) became as that of a little child. Talk about a fresh start!
JONAH: He and the others on the ship were as good as dead, because of Jonah's sin. So He had to be buried (at sea), and the Lord's wrath was quenched (the seas calmed and the sailors lives saved). Jonah was "resurrected" a new and determined man. (I still try to picture the scene of him preaching with such power and conviction that the whole city of Ninevah believed him and repented. Yes, he had his post revival pout, but it kept him from getting a big head.) The Lord Jesus placed great emphasis on Jonah's type and shadow.
JESUS: He is the great example. At his baptism: "Suffer it to be so now; for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness." Jesus needed to be baptised? Just believe it.
IN CONCLUSION:
The devil has done a great job of "hiding the book" from the masses through the centuries. When cleaning the temple, the priests found the long lost book of the law. (2Kings chap 22 & 23) when Josiah realized they were in error with their faith (that's putting it mildly), he ordered things be corrcted (believing as the sciptures hath said).
There have always been people somewhere in this world, that are hungry for God. They are willing to love Him more than their mother, father, siblings, or even a religious order built on man-made compromises.
When one is anchored in the Truth, the peace and contentment is simply unmatched by any man-made religious ritual. The Holy Ghost infilling (one's own personal resurrection) is incredible. But this thread is about water baptism and therefore I close for now. Goodnight.
Zuriel