Posted on 03/23/2005 6:39:05 AM PST by arrogantduck
What do you when 3000 persons respond to a sermon and want to be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins? What do you do when this number of 3000 is added to daily?...
>> I'm sorry, but a Saint - at least in the Catholic/intercessory understanding of the word - is someone in heaven. Are you suggesting that Judas is in heaven? <<
I'm puzzled by your question. Where do I call Judas a saint? I point out that he is not the Judas who is prayed to.
That question is metaphysical and beyond my understanding. As a mortal man, I cannot comprehend the process by which any human person may transition from this life to the next.
>> I'm sorry, but a Saint - at least in the Catholic/intercessory understanding of the word - is someone in heaven. Are you suggesting that Judas is in heaven? <<
I'm puzzled by your question. Where do I call Judas a saint? I point out that he is not the Judas who is prayed to.
But to answer your question, I am wondering if Judas will end up in Heaven on the last day.
"Cheap shot"? I merely stated your beliefs about Mary to illustrate the sort of belief system that can arise out of reliance on extra-Biblical beliefs based on frail human logic.
This is why Jesus chose the Apostles - not because it was something "new" to Judaism, but rather because it would be these men that would carry on his tradition and teachings- in accord with Jewish tradition.
I'm always fascinated to see how God uses the traditions of men to accomplish His will.
are you suggesting, then, that Jesus appointed someone who did not believe Christ's teachings to carry on these very same teachings?
He didn't appoint Judas Iscariot to carry on His teachings. He appointed Judas to betray Him.
>> You have to obey every commandment of Jesus for salvation? <<
Only because we can receive forgiveness for disobedience, the answer is "no."
But dying in a state of willful and grave disobedience by refusing to receive the sign of salvation which Jesus commanded us to receive doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.
The thief on the cross pre-dated the Christian age.
Thanks for all of the insight. Sorry to start such a heated and diverse thread. We all have beliefs that are core to our faith. Phillipians 2:12-13 says to"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." But when asked or given the opportunity to share the Good News I will still preach Christ and Him crucified which will include that baptism is essential for salvation.
For everyone who tried to help and stayed on the topic thanks again, gotta go now.
The thief on the cross was not under the New Covenant. He was living in the in-between period between the Old and New Covenants. He very well could have been baptized by John the Baptist, we are just not sure. However, we are sure that Jesus had the power to save anyone while He was on this earth. Instead of looking for loopholes, why don't you just trust the Word of God on the issue of salvation.
I think you know that I'm not talking about that. By what merrit does Moses earn Heaven? By his righteousness? By his works? By being born again? Or by something else?
By his faith in God as lived out in his works.
>> I'm sorry, but a Saint - at least in the Catholic/intercessory understanding of the word - is someone in heaven. <<
I'm sure you know this, but for the sake of Protestants on the thread, I will state it:
A Saint (derivation: "clean") is someone who has been purified of sin and who therefore may enter directly into Heaven. One needn't have died to be a Saint, but the only way to be sure one may enter Heaven is to have achieved it, so only those in Heaven already are entitled, "Saint."
Any protestant who insists all believers are saints need only examine the venial sins of their own lives to recognize that one may be saved and not yet a saint.
You should ask him his thoughts on "death bed confessions".
If he has had one of these, ask him if he told them they were not saved.
Out to lunch...
and then maybe some work :-)
Despite the fact that Israel is an "enemy of the cross" (as we read in St. Paul's epistle to the Romans), the Old Testament "came from" Israel.
God is able and faithful to protect His Word. The Bible comes from the Almighty Himself.
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