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To: AAABEST

So now it's the Zeitgeist? I don't buy this explanation at all. The Church survived two World Wars stronger than ever. It survived the French Revolution stronger than ever. It survived the fall of the Roman Empire stronger than ever. Those were zeitgeists far more influential and powerful than Kinsey or the pill. It was the spririt of Modernism which infused the Council and caught traditionalists unawares that has decimated the faith. It has been doggedly pushed by two modernist popes despite scandal after scandal and failure after failure. Both Paul VI nor John Paul II despised Catholic Tradition and did all they could to undermine it. The Novus Ordo Mass and Assisi I and II are their monuments to faithlessness. They sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind.


7 posted on 03/05/2005 11:37:18 AM PST by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio
The Church survived two World Wars stronger than ever.

Actually, I think the fall of Christianity in Europe was caused directly by the two World Wars, and the corresponding decline in the Catholic Church (you can't have a Catholic Church without Christians) was accelerating by the time WWII was over.

11 posted on 03/05/2005 2:26:26 PM PST by Jim Noble
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To: ultima ratio
Both Paul VI nor John Paul II despised Catholic Tradition and did all they could to undermine it.

Pope Paul and Cardinal Wojtyla were the two men most responsible for preserving tradition in Humanae Vitae, despite the "zeitgeist" found even among the men appointed to advise them on the matter. Therefore your statement that they despised tradition and did all they could to undermine it is false, hollow, mistaken, and wrong. If Paul had granted Catholics permission to contracept, then you might be correct that they did everything they could have to undermine traditionalism, but since he didn't grant permission tto Catholics to contracept, then he didn't do everything he could have to undermine the Church.

14 posted on 03/05/2005 7:18:00 PM PST by St.Chuck
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To: ultima ratio
The Church survived two World Wars stronger than ever. It survived the French Revolution stronger than ever. It survived the fall of the Roman Empire stronger than ever. Those were zeitgeists far more influential and powerful than Kinsey or the pill.

Your comparisons are ludicrous. Wars and social upheavals are not remotely similar to an ethos of sexual liscence. Of course the church is stronger during wars and revolution, as it is a source of consolation to a fearful people. The sixties were populated by anybody but a fearful people. In fact, I'd venture to say they were a pretty self-satisfied lot.

15 posted on 03/05/2005 7:27:16 PM PST by St.Chuck
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To: ultima ratio
The Church survived two World Wars stronger than ever.

Apparently not.

89 posted on 03/07/2005 8:19:46 AM PST by Romulus (Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?)
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