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To: ultima ratio
but I'd hardly call the collapse in Eastern Europe the work of the Church. It was Reagan who did the heavy lifting.

Reagan's role is exaggerated. What took place in Poland was a non-violent uprising that had been fostered by Cardinals Wyszynski and Wojtyla for decades. They had nurtured the intellegentsia clubs and underground publications that inspired the peaceful dissent for many, many years, and had even helped spread those kind of efforts to Czechoslovakia, the Ukraine, and Hungary. There can never be enough attribution given to the Polish Church for the miraculous overthrow of their Soviet oppressors.

Just the opposite, it was friendly with the socialists, not those who pushed for democracy.

Socialist and democratic are not negating terms. Needless to say, the brutal military dictators were removed with the encouragement and help of the church. There are plenty of Catholic martyrs for the cause of freedom to attest to that fact.

57 posted on 03/05/2005 11:56:16 PM PST by St.Chuck
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To: St.Chuck

Fostered for decades, my eye. JPII was a catalyst, that was all. There was no planned agenda. The huge crowds that showed up for his speeches tipped the scales--much as they did recently in Ukraine and are now doing in Lebanon. Reagan, on the other hand, out-maneuvered Gorbachev and broke the Soviet economy with the arms race.


58 posted on 03/06/2005 12:50:01 AM PST by ultima ratio
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