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To: PetroniusMaximus

Here's a passage from Seneca, Nero's tutor (Nero later ordered him to commit suicide), a stoic philosopher and a contemporary of Paul. He is writing to a young Roman:

"God is near you, he is with you, he is within you. This is what I mean, Lucullus--a holy spirit indwells within us, one who marks our good and bad deeds, and is our guardian. As we treat this spirit, so are we treated by it. Indeed, no man can be good without the help of God. He it is that gives noble and upright counsel. In each good man 'a god doth dwell, but what god know we not.'"

This was Epistle XLI. Doesn't it strike you in some ways as rather remarkably similar to what any Christian might think--except for the final line? And you'd be right. Much of what was later common Christian thought and morality was derived from stoicism. Seneca opposed slavery, he warned young men against gladiator shows and other spectacles, he condemned abortion and contraception. There was a lot that Christians learned from the stoics.


56 posted on 03/05/2005 11:44:34 PM PST by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio

***God is near you, he is with you, he is within you.***


But ultimatley Seneca was wrong. Paul describe the state of pre Christian pagans...

"Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands-- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and WITHOUT GOD in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ."



***XLI. Doesn't it strike you in some ways as rather remarkably similar to what any Christian might think--except for the final line?****

I can see that. But I can see the same words on the lips of any New Ager! An outside observer might find alot of similarities between Christianity and New Ageism - but we know they are literally worlds apart. The devil's in the details.

Christianity, ultimatley, is not defined in terms of morality but of relationship - relationship to the person of Christ. Very moral people can still be very lost and on their way to hell.


***There was a lot that Christians learned from the stoics***

I have to admit it's been a while since I've studied the Stoics. It's relationship to Pauline theology was, at one time, a very "hot" theological topic.


71 posted on 03/06/2005 1:13:07 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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