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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; Agrarian
Hey all! Well, we are back from our journey. We went to a church made up of all converts, so the entire service was in English. Because I had done a little reading beforehand, I knew a little what to expect. When we got there, about 10 minutes early, some people were lighting candles and praying. Some people arrived at various points during the service, and some folks walked up to the icons and lighted candles during the service. Several people introduced themselves to us, and one very nice lady took Max (my 7 y.o.) around the church and explained things to him. We went up front during the Our Father for the kids to receive a blessing, and the boys lighted candles and said a prayer for their family. After the Eucharist, we went up for the blessed bread.

As I suspected, Max paid much more attention than did Tobie. Max is very spiritual. At one point, he sat down on the floor and started crying. He said he felt "unloved." I used to have that feeling as a child, and I still do at times--I attribute it to being separated from God. I explained to him that he was feeling his "God-hole" and that it was because he was in such a holy place that he felt it more keenly. Tobie was pretty much oblivious to the whole atmosphere.

I loved it. I had to mind the boys on and off, but I got to listen and pray during much of the service. I liked all the singing and the fact that the whole service felt of one piece. The service didn't feel as "separated" as the Anglican liturgy, where there is clearly the first part, centering around the readings and the second part, with the Eucharist. And it felt more participatory; I didn't get bored the way I sometimes do at Anglican worship.

I felt like I was in a spiritual, holy place, but in an ordinary way, if that makes sense. Ordinary in the sense of this is what happens every time these people gather together and worship. There was no sense of people being there just because it is Sunday and you go to church. No sense of people watching other people or just going through the motions.

I felt left out because I couldn't take the Eucharist. I have a very Catholic spirituality--I'm baptized into the one Church, a confessing Christian...I wanted to be a part of the Eucharistic feast. Oh well.

I think we will either go back to this same church next Sunday or go to an Antiochan Orthodox Church that is nearby. Thank you for your prayers. We felt them.

24 posted on 03/06/2005 9:57:21 AM PST by pharmamom (So many pings, so little time...)
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To: pharmamom; Agrarian; kosta50; sionnsar; AlbionGirl
Well this is wonderful and I am very happy you had such a good experience. You say the Liturgy seemed of one piece and indeed it is exactly that. And yes, we do the same thing every Sunday.

One thing which people seem to seem to comment on after having been to an Orthodox Divine Liturgy is the sense of "divine space". The icons contribute to this sense because they are the cloud of heavenly witnesses we join with, in a very real sense, when we pray the Liturgy. In the 900s, Prince Vladimir of Kiev sent envoys out to Constantinople. When they returned, they told the Prince that they had been at a Divine Liturgy in the Orthodox Church of St Sophia, and that they had been 'out of ourselves, not knowing if we were on earth or in heaven'.

This weekly experience of being "out of ourselves" is what transforms our lives as Orthodox people so that soon enough we can approach living in the world but not being of the world.
26 posted on 03/06/2005 10:59:24 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: pharmamom

I forgot to add, Great Lent starts a week from Monday. The cycle of Sunday Liturgies, Wednesday Liturgies of the Pre Snactified Gifts and the various Vespers and Akathists leading up to and including Great Week and the Resurrection teach virtually all the Faith. Its a great time to learn about Orthodoxy.


28 posted on 03/06/2005 11:24:29 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: pharmamom; Kolokotronis; kosta50
Thanks so much for sharing what you experienced. It is always good for us to hear what newcomers see, hear, and experience.

Regarding communion, you are feeling the effecs of the Schism. It is real, and it hurts -- it hurts us as well, not to be able to share the fullness of our experience with others, but it is how it has to be. Anglicans consider the chalice to be a means to achieve unity -- Orthodox consider the shared chalice rather to be the ultimate sign and reflection of complete unity. It is the Body and Blood of Christ, and we can share it only with other Orthodox Christians, who share the totality of faith and practice with us.

I, too, am curious about the jurisdiction of the parish you visited, since there was one thing you mentioned that I haven't seen anywhere before. Respond privately, if you prefer.

It is interesting that you immediately noticed the "seamless" quality of Orthodox services. People are often surprised at the fact that services which are so "regimented" (none of the clergy have the freedom to what they want -- every reading and every hymn is appointed in the rubrics) are simultaneously so relaxed, for want of a better term. The combination of deep reverence and comfortableness is different from the western "high-church" approach, at least that which I have been exposed to.

For what it's worth, I'll pass on the advice that was given to me, and that I've heard many priests and experienced Orthodox Christians give others: over time, visit every Orthodox parish in your area -- even those you think you won't be interested in (unless someone "in the know" specifically warns you off from one or more.) Each parish has a slightly different "flavor," and you never know where your family might feel most comfortable visiting for a while.

I would also like to echo Kolokotronis's recommendation to consider some of the special weekday Lenten services. There are some different things about these services, such as the congregation making full prostrations at certain points in these penitential services (which you don't need to do when you're visiting -- just grab a place to stand in the back at weekday services.) Also, don't forget Saturday night Vespers, if they are available at any of your local parishes. These are very popular services amongst explorers, since there is no communion, and since there is a lot of variable material with lots of theology expressed in the course of the prayers. We have a Catholic priest, an Anglican priest, and a Methodist minister who regularly attend our Saturday night Vespers services. The Anglican priest, now retired, is now coming to Liturgy as well. The Vespers service is also shorter than Liturgy (A Russian parish with "Vigil" will have a longer Saturday night service, but it is something that you can feel free leaving after having been there for an hour -- lots of the "natives" with children do the same.)

Just some thoughts... Sounds like things went well, and again, thank you so much for sharing your experience with us.

38 posted on 03/06/2005 1:33:20 PM PST by Agrarian
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To: pharmamom

Thanks for letting us know about your inquiry into Orthodoxy. I'm looking forward to reading more of yours and your boys (and possibly your husbands) journey.


52 posted on 03/07/2005 7:48:27 AM PST by katnip (Starving sick people to death is immoral and Un-American)
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