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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
St. Anthony the Great, perhaps the greatest of the Desert Fathers wrote:

"God is good, dispassionate, and immutable. Now someone who thinks it reasonable and true to affirm that God does not change, may well ask how, in that case, it is possible to speak of God as rejoicing over those who are good and showing mercy to those who honor Him, and as turning away from the wicked and being angry with sinners. To this it must be answered that God neither rejoices nor grows angry, for to rejoice and to be offended are passions; nor is He won over by the gifts of those who honor Him, for that would mean He is swayed by pleasure. It is not right that the Divinity feel pleasure or displeasure from human conditions. He is good, and He only bestows blessings and never does harm, remaining always the same. We men, on the other hand, if we remain good through resembling God, are united to Him, but if we become evil through not resembling God, we are separated from Him. By living in holiness we cleave to God; but by becoming wicked we make Him our enemy. It is not that He grows angry with us in an arbitrary way, but it is our own sins that prevent God from shining within us and expose us to demons who torture us. And if through prayer and acts of compassion we gain release from our sins, this does not mean that we have won God over and made Him to change, but that through our actions and our turning to the Divinity, we have cured our wickedness and so once more have enjoyment of God's goodness. Thus to say that God turns away from the wicked is like saying that the sun hides itself from the blind." The Philokalia, Chap. 150.

"Here are three of many examples when He did just that in this life. OT: Sodom & Gomorrah; The Flood NT: Annanias and Sapphira"

The examples you cite are instances of what the Fathers called pedagogical punishment and were imposed to stop the spread of evil and not to "punish" those who died. or so the Fathers taught. St Isaac the Syrian in his Homily 73 said:

"He who applies pedagogical punishments in order to give health, is punishing with love, but he who is looking for vengeance, is devoid of love. God punishes with love, not defending Himself — far be it — but He wants to heal His image, and He does not keep His wrath for long. This way of love is the way of uprightness, and it does not change with passion to a defense. A man who is just and wise is like God because he never chastises a man in revenge for wickedness, but only in order to correct him or that others be afraid."

I understand where your beliefs come from. I am not condemning them, but you should understand that they are particularly Western. I suspect the Fathers would declare the ECUSA heretics anathema and remove them from the Church for the good of the Church and the heretics themselves, but they would pray for their repentance unceasingly.

13 posted on 03/01/2005 3:58:49 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: Kolokotronis
And if through prayer and acts of compassion we gain release from our sins, this does not mean that we have won God over and made Him to change, but that through our actions and our turning to the Divinity, we have cured our wickedness and so once more have enjoyment of God's goodness.

Perhaps my reading of this is skewed by my western faith upbringing, but this sounds an awful lot like "works..." How is it that our actions and our turning to the Divinity "cures" our wickedness, when it is by grace that we are saved through faith?

15 posted on 03/01/2005 6:21:26 PM PST by pharmamom (Ping me, Baby.)
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