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To: spunkets; betty boop
Thank you for your reply and all of the Scriptures!

It appears however that we are on two very much different Spiritual wavelengths and thus would have considerable difficulty in finding common ground. If you want to try, though, I'm game - but we need to start with basics like good v evil, heaven and earth, original sin, predestination v free will, etc.

If you are curious as to my "wavelength", here is an article I wrote: What is [a Christian] man?

375 posted on 03/04/2005 1:09:26 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
"different Spiritual wavelengths"

Yes, it would appear so. I take it that you are a Calvinist, or beleive in predestination. I beleive in Free will and the draw to God is, because of my values and finding that His are perfect. I read Scriptures by going to the source first, that is Jesus quoted in the Gospels.

I judge good and evil as based on The moral code. To me the judgement requires the choice, or decision of a being to apply the terms.

Heaven is a stable existence with God. Earth is a transient existence, where men develope their spirit. It's that spirit developed here, by the action of man's Free will, that will be judged. I posted the condition of that judgement above. God forgives all those, except the one's that reject the Holy Spirit. Those will given their own eternal domain to exist with those tossed out of Heaven for making the same choice. The fires of hell will be created by the spirits in their own domain, not by God, just as they lit them previously. He gave them Life and Freedom unconditionally.

Alas, I am a heretic, I don't beleive in original sin. In my own judgement, applying the stain of sin of one man to all his progeny is fundamentally unjust. I also don't find the concept in the Bible. What Paul said, means no more than the first man sinned and thus sin entered the world at that point.

John 9 illustrates my thoughts on the matter. Jesus says neither the man born blind, or his parents sinned. The Pharasees grilled the man and did their best to get him to say Jesus was a sinner. The man remained truthful and honest. John9:34
To this they replied, “You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!” And they threw him out.

Jesus, the man Jesus healed and the man's parents were innocent, so they conjured up the lie. As far as I was told, the Jews don't and didn't believe in original sin.

Jesus ends with John 9:39-41
Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, “What? Are we blind too?”

Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

I welcome the discussion and must answer honestly. I'm in an out of FR though, so I can't always answer promptly. God bless.

376 posted on 03/04/2005 8:42:19 PM PST by spunkets
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To: Alamo-Girl
"But even a chosen man has free will."

I see, it's a mix.

377 posted on 03/04/2005 9:04:34 PM PST by spunkets
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