In the Gullet of a Wolf

The Remnant ^ | February 28, 2005

[murphE]

"Since cause and effect cannot be seen with the naked eye, and there remains, therefore, conjecture on the matter of cause, I believe it legitimate for Catholics to be able to debate the nature of the cause(s), which have produced the effects in the Church of the present time--many of which are documented. If all aspects of a council are precluded from any such discussion, on the assumption that all aspects of all councils are somehow sacrosanct and divinely inspired, then we do a disservice to the pursuit of truth and a remedy, in my opinion. There are ambiguities and omissions in, and false translations of, documents of the recent council which have been used and misused by certain elements within the Church, with devastating results. Similarly, things never envisioned or commented upon by the council have been carried out, in the name of the council—the radical changes to the Sacred Liturgy, for instance. This has now gone on for four decades; one wonders if this will continue for centuries. It will, if we label those who raise the question as unfaithful, or those who object as dissenters."

Father Echert

SOURCE

[Land of the Irish]

Many more Catholics than you think are aware of the Indult Masses, and prefer to attend the Novus Ordo Mass.

[Gerard.P]

Many more of those in Jerusalem preferred Barabbas to Our Lord. So much for "preferences" and a prime example of Democracy in action.

[sinkspur]

Many more of those in Jerusalem preferred Barabbas to Our Lord. So much for "preferences" and a prime example of Democracy in action.

Another slap at the Novus Ordo.

The main reason the Tridentine is not attended on a wider basis is demonstrated amply by the arrogance and condescension of its advocates on this very website.

[murphE]

Another slap at the Novus Ordo. No it's a slap at your reasoning, that numbers make something "good".

Again, if the NO is so good, tell us why.

[Gerard.P]

I'd ask you to prove that but it would be as "fruitless" as Vatican II itself.

It is the bishops that are denying the true Mass to the faithful. It is the bishops that illegally suppressed it.

Most of the zombies attending the Novus Ordo don't even know there ever was a so-called "Tridentine" rite.

[Gerard.P]

The Novus Ordo doesn't believe in the "slap". The "slap" in traditional Catholicism is a reminder that one is a soldier for Christ.

The Novus Ordo crumbles at the slightest "slap" because it is not built for the Church Militant.

[Gerard.P]

By the way, I'm not saying that anyone who goes to the Novus Ordo is a zombie. I'm referring only to the zombies that do attend. :)

[pascendi]

"The main reason the Tridentine is not attended on a wider basis is demonstrated amply by the arrogance and condescension of its advocates on this very website."

Even if that were true, that people were actually turned away by a real and true arrogance, and a real and true condescension of its advocates on this very website, you would be forced to admit that they turned away for the wrong reasons, and for reasons that ultimately could not be justified.

Therefore, in either the case where the advocates were perfect, or the case were they were manifest sinners...

...you'd be wrong.

[pascendi]

True; there are many who are quite innocent.

[rogator]

"The main reason the Tridentine is not attended on a wider basis is demonstrated amply by the arrogance and condescension of its advocates on this very website."

The main reason the Tridentine is not attended on a wider basis is that it is not available to the faithful.
The secondary reason is that it has been lied about and bad-mouthed by clerics and other church leaders.

[k omalley]

"The main reason the Tridentine is not attended on a wider basis is that it is not available to the faithful."
"The secondary reason is that it has been lied about and bad-mouthed by clerics and other church leaders."

There is not one TLM in my entire state despite a petition of 1000 names presented to the bishop.I travel out of state to attend one every couple of months as it is a great distance. Our own priest says that having a TLM would be divisive. Why would this be divisive when teen Masses, Spanish Masses, and charismatic Masses are not?

[murphE]

Our own priest says that having a TLM would be divisive.

Divisive? Like separating wheat from tares? Sheep from goats? ;-)

[rogator]

"Why would this be divisive..."

See my secondary reason to Sinkspur above.
Clerics and other church leaders who lie about and bad-mouth the TLM are doing the work of Satan, whether they know it or not.
This becomes more and more apparent as it becomes harder and harder to find a licit and reverent Novus Ordo Mass with no sacriligious actions or music.
Licit and reverent Novus Ordo Masses are out there but can be darn hard to find.

[k omalley]

To me, divisive almost implies that we are dealing with two different religions. What else could this mean? Everyone has their favorite Mass they attend, whether it be 0700, 1030,etc.
This is not considered divisive. Catholics get to know people who attend other Masses through parish activities.

[vox_freedom]

Divisive? Like separating wheat from tares? Sheep from goats? ;-)

Like peaches from the pits?

[murphE]

Irish, thank-you for posting these links. I had not seen many of these pictures before. AWESOME!