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To: bobjam

My parish is part of a small diocese under the EP, and I've been able to steer clear of jurisdictional politics -- and I like it that way. I would like to see a unified Orthodox witness in America, but I understand there are all kinds of hurdles -- political, ethnic, cultural -- that have to be overcome before that can happen.


4 posted on 02/25/2005 10:06:38 AM PST by Southside_Chicago_Republican (A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.)
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To: Southside_Chicago_Republican

The Orthodox in this country seem to facing many of the same hurdles Catholics faced 100 years ago. Then, Roman Catholicism transformed from a largely immigrant church to a mainstream church as the immigrants who formed its backbone blended into American culture. The Orthodox face similar challenges. More and more parishes are slowly (and in many cases begrudgingly) conducting the Liturgy in English (albeit with a strong accent) rather than Russian, Greek, or Old Church Slavonic. Furthermore, more and more clergy are not only from America, but are also being trained in America (St. Tikhon's, Holy Cross, etc.). Parishioners are no longer seeing themsleves as Bulgarian/Romanian/Antiochan/Coptic/etc. Orthodox Christians living in America, but as American Orthodox Christians.


11 posted on 02/25/2005 1:39:35 PM PST by bobjam
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To: Southside_Chicago_Republican; eleni121; Kolokotronis
"...I've been able to steer clear of jurisdictional politics -- and I like it that way."

Yes, indeed, that is the best way. Doing otherwise is a good way to jeopardize one's soul.

In my other post on this thread, while having some less than kind things to say about some of the players involved in all of this, I also made the point that every jurisdiction has strong and weak points.

I found it appropriate that this thread was posted today, since for those of us following the New Calendar, the primary commemoration of today is St. Tarasius, Patriarch of Constantinople. I had read his life earlier in the day, and had had cause to reflect on the curious ways in which the Holy Spirit has cared for his Church, specifically in the way that God specifically has used people on "both sides" of controversies to work his will.

St. Tarasius was made Patriarch of Constantinople during the very hard time surrounding the iconoclastic controversy after Patriarch Paul IV resigned in discouragement. He led a life of asceticism, simplicity, and pastoral zeal, putting to shame other clergy who loved their positions because of the pomp and power that could be afforded them. He worked tirelessly to reconcile the former iconoclasts to the Church, using love and forgiveness.

Simultaneous to this, St. Theodore and the rest of the Studite took a hard-line position on how to reconcile the former (because had they really given up their heresy?) iconoclasts. They actually cut themselves off from communion with St. Tarasius, and were forced into exile.

In the end, St. Tarasius ended up excommunicating the iconoclast Joseph, which paved the way to a reconciliation with the Studites. The end result was a Church which was fully reconciled, *and* which thoroughly had renounced and rid itself of iconoclasm. Try to find any remaining trace of iconoclasm in Orthodoxy today!

My point is that both saints were right. Both were guided by the Holy Spirit. Both played a role in producing the Church we have today: St. Tarasius in his love, forebearance, and desire to reconcile former heretics, *and* St. Theodore and the Studites, in their hard-line zeal to preserve the Holy Orthodox faith regarding icons -- not just in name, but to the very bone.

I'm certainly not claiming that all of our hierarchs and bureaucrats are saints, but I do believe that many of the various "competing visions" of the Church here in America have roles to play in the ongoing development of our Church, and we should resist the urge completely to discount any of them.

I am certainly more comfortable in and with some than in others, but that is a separate issue...

May both the Holy Tarasius and the Holy Theodore pray to God for us.

12 posted on 02/25/2005 2:42:38 PM PST by Agrarian
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