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More on the consecration of Russia and John Paul II's view of his near-death experience.
1 posted on 02/18/2005 10:48:50 AM PST by sinkspur
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To: marshmallow; Salvation; NYer

A counter to the Sungenis' conspiracy theories.


2 posted on 02/18/2005 10:52:14 AM PST by sinkspur ("Preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.")
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To: sinkspur; Pio; pascendi; Gerard.P; vox_freedom; murphE; Maeve; CouncilofTrent; ...

Thank you for this marvelous article from the National Catholic Reporter - the official organ of the American Catholic Church, in de facto schism for some 30 years.

This is also the flagship journal for the "cafeteria Catholic".

Thank you so much for posting this!


3 posted on 02/18/2005 12:01:25 PM PST by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux !)
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To: sinkspur

Not a bad article, considering it's NCR. They would never have written like this 10 years ago. But even so, they still get some facts wrong. Maybe they just can't help it.

Not to say there isn't some good information here. A few points are surprisingly frank. But not all is correct. According to Pope Paul VI, the smoke of satan enters through some crack. He doesn't need an open door, just "some crack." A ship can sink, a space shuttle can be ripped apart, a bathysphere can be imploded, all by a mere crack!

"...[S]he handed over to Vatican officials the 'Third Secret' of Fatima, a vision of a bishop in white and a hail of gunfire..." No, she handed the secret over to her local bishop, who was afraid to read it because he didn't want the responsibility involved. He left it unopened with instructions what to do with it after his death, etc. This might seem a minor point, but it is rather key, since it assists the agenda of the reformers to say that Sr. Lucy gave the secret to the Vatican. That is a lie. She gave it to her local bishop with no hint of intending it for Rome.

Furthermore, this "bishop in white and a hail of gunfire" is a half-truth and therefore a whole lie. That is not part of the words of Our Lady, the "3rd Secret," per se. It is rather part of a narrative given later by Sister Lucy describing her experience, a visual image she saw while the real 3rd Secret was being spoken by Our Lady.

"May 13, 1981, the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima" another half-truth and a whole lie. The modern Vatican has not given us a worldwide feast day in the name of Our Lady of Fatima as we have for Our Lady of Lourdes and the Apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Perhaps it's because they have forgotten how to properly adjust the calendar. Whatever the reason is we can only guess, but it would SEEM that they don't want to draw any more attention to this topic than they absolutely have to. Which is why we need to keep the issue in discussion, because the Vatican wishes it would quietly go away, and I can prove it.

More than one Marian priests refer to the 13th of EVERY MONTH as "the day of Our Lady." Is this in some kind of affront to triskaidekaphobia? Ahem... What is it about the number 13 that's so frightful, anyway? Or Friday, for that matter? Were we not loosed from our sins on Friday? If this recent development is any clue, perhaps it's the DEVIL that is afraid of 13, because he knows his head is crushed by her heel - on the 13th? We shall see...

As for Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone of Genoa, don't bother believing a word he says. Not an easy thing to say, but when the stripes are shown, the colors are known, Bertone.

As Newsmax put it:

“According to Unity, what the nuns or Lucia said about the movie [“The Passion of the Christ”] is unknown and may never be known because statements by Lucia or for that matter any Carmelite nun throughout the world are always sent through the bishop or the Holy Father first. Because of her power of influence, Lucia must be very careful what she says publicly since she is one of the possessors of the so-called ‘Third Secret of Fatima.’”

So now it has been confirmed that any “reports” we receive from Sr. Lucia do not come from Sr. Lucia directly but are first passed through the bishop of her diocese or the pope himself, and who knows who else (e.g., Bertone, Sodano, Ratzinger, et al). No wonder we can’t get the truth from Sr. Lucia, since the filtering system surrounding her cleanses her message of anything detrimental to the prelates who are in control. Did Sr. Lucia see another “apparition?” Well, since she is no longer speaking for herself without a biased interpreter we can only depend on the words of that impeccable prelate, Cardinal Bertone. I think I’d rather buy some swamp land in Florida.

The power brokers in Rome don't want a little Carmelite nun in Portugal to have the influence they covet.

"...[Q]uietly added "Russia" under his breath," as if we should be impressed. What tripe. What, is he afraid of something? A little weak in the gut, perhaps, a little lacking in resolve? Why say the most important thing "under his breath?" Why is it important? Because, simply put, if it is not spoken clearly by the Pope and by the bishops (the Catholic bishops, not the Orthodox, or whatever) together for all the world to hear without doubt or question, the enemies of the Faith can simply chide, "they didn't say it for me to hear it so they didn't say it at all." In that way confusion and discord set in, in which environment we cannot expect God to give us the effects we anticipate by the promise of Our Lady.


5 posted on 02/18/2005 12:05:44 PM PST by donbosco74 ("Men and devils make war on me in this great city." (Paris) --St. Louis-Marie Grignion de Montfort)
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To: sinkspur; marshmallow; thor76

It is important also to bear in mind that Bishop Cosme do Amaral was personally present on the afternoon of March 21, 1982, when Sister Lucia explained precisely what the Pope and the bishops must do in order to fulfill Our Lady of Fatima's request for the consecration of Russia.

On that Sunday afternoon, Sister Lucia explained that the Pope must select a date on which to order the bishops of the whole world to arrange for a public and solemn act of reparation and of consecration of RUSSIA to the most Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary, each in his own cathedral and at the same time as the act of consecration effected by the Pope.

In spite of the obvious fact that the above described act of consecration has never been performed, Bishop Cosme do Amaral has made numerous statements which clearly create the false impression that the consecration of Russia requested by Our Lady of Fatima has already been performed.

A detailed examination of the bishop's words make it clear that he is engaged in a campaign of deception and disinformation against Sister Lucia which distorts Our Lady's message.

Referring to Pope Pius XII's consecration of the world in 1942, the Bishop of Fatima says:

"I do not believe we are exaggerating, if we say that we see here a consecration of Russia that is implicit ... But Pope Pius went even further in 1952 when he consecrated explicitly all the people of Russia on the feast of Sts. Cyril and Methodius ... The Holy Father said quite clearly, we consecrate you, all the people of Russia. Thus there can be no doubt that the Holy Father consecrated explicitly the peoples of Russia."


Bishop Amaral's Deceptive Words Answered
Bishop Amaral knows very well that the consecrations of 1942 and 1952 did not fulfill Our Lady of Fatima's request. On June 13, 1929, Our Lady of Fatima appeared to Sister Lucia in Tuy, Spain, and said: "The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to make in union with all the bishops of the world, the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means."

The 1942 consecration was not a solemn and public consecration of Russia: it was a consecration of the world that only included Russia in a general and implicit way.

The 1952 consecration of Russia was not performed in union with all the bishops of the world.

No one who has seriously studied the Fatima message can claim that either of these two consecrations fulfilled the request of Our Lady of Fatima since, as Sister Lucia explains, Our Lady requires that "the Holy Father will himself make a solemn act of reparation and consecration of Russia ... as well as ordering all the bishops of the Catholic world to do the same."(4)

The next consecration that the Bishop of Fatima mentions is the 1964 consecration of the world, performed by Pope Paul VI at the Second Vatican Council, but even he, Bishop Cosme do Amaral acknowledges the fact that that act of consecration was "not specifically for Russia but for all the world." The same is true of the consecrations of the world made by Pope John Paul II on May 13, 1982, and March 25, 1984. These consecrations were not specifically of Russia but of the whole world.

Bishop Cosme do Amaral involves himself in some serious and deceptive hairsplitting when he expounds on the two last mentioned consecrations of the world.

Sister Lucia has unequivocally stated that these consecrations do not fulfill Our Lady of Fatima's request for the consecration of Russia.

After the 1982 consecration, Sister Lucia explained to the Apostolic Nuncio, Msgr. Sante Portalupi, Father Messias and Dr. Lacerda that the consecration of Russia had not been effected because Russia was not clearly the object of the consecration and because each bishop had not arranged a public solemn ceremony of Russia's consecration in his own cathedral.

The 1984 consecration, being substantially identical to the consecration of 1982, likewise suffered the same two defects, and therefore it is no surprise that Sister Lucia again stated on July 20, 1987, in the above-cited interview with Enrique Romero, that the consecration of Russia has not yet been done in the manner that Our Lady of Fatima has requested.


Pope John Paul II and Sister Lucia Publicly Acknowledge Consecration Not Done
The Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, has acknowledged publicly, on March 25, 1984, that the consecration requested by Our Lady of Fatima has not yet been done. His statement was published in his own newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano.

http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr30/cr30pg08.asp


8 posted on 02/18/2005 12:22:43 PM PST by Land of the Irish (Tradidi quod et accepi)
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To: sinkspur
Alberto Cosme do Amaral is a nut.

According to him, Russia has already been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart at least five times: in 1942, 1952, 1964, 1982 and 1984.

But then again, you and NCR are fond of quoting the "nuts".

9 posted on 02/18/2005 12:33:00 PM PST by Land of the Irish (Tradidi quod et accepi)
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To: sinkspur
Afterwards, Sr. Lucia apparently told the apostolic nuncio in Portugal that Mary had accepted the consecration, a fact that, in the pope's mind, is not without significance in explaining subsequent events, including the collapse of the Berlin Wall and eventually the Soviet system.

I think the results speak for themselves.

I was wondering where the usual suspects went off to. I can see even in a decent article about Sr Lucia, and the Pope they can find something to bash the Church with.
12 posted on 02/18/2005 12:38:42 PM PST by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: sinkspur; american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...
More on the consecration of Russia and John Paul II's view of his near-death experience.

CAUSE OF SEER'S DEATH IS DETAILED ALONG WITH HER WARNINGS OF BATTLE WITH DEVIL AND GREAT DARKNESS AMIDST PRIESTHOOD

Fatima seer Lucia de Jesus dos Santos succumbed to heart and respiratory failure after declining in December, according to a source at Fatima who is close to the situation. From then on it was downhill until the famous nun, known for seeing the Most Holy Mother in 1917, died February 13 of what appeared to be congestive heart failure.

Really, of course, it was the simpler verdict of old age. Sister Lucia would have been 98 on March 22, an incredibly able nun who always sought to lead a hidden life, rarely appearing in public, except with Popes at major Fatima events, such as the beatification of her cousins and fellow seers, Francisco and Jacinta Marto, in 2000. For years she did menial tasks, refused to stray beyond the cloister grate, and sang in the convent choir.

It was Sister Lucia who remained as the sole survivor of what will stand as among the most famous apparitions in history, along with Guadalupe and Lourdes.

"A humble person, she recollected herself in prayer whenever she could," said Bishop Albino Cleto of Coimbra. "She was always available to people who requested an interview but shied away from contacts that spelled publicity or protocol. She was a true Carmelite."

"Sister Lucia inspired confidence because of the peace in which she lived," added Bishop João Alves, the retired head of the Coimbra Diocese, according to the Ecclesia agency. "A peace that resided in faith and a constant union with God."

The Pope said he has been sustained by her daily prayers. "I remember with emotion the various meetings I had with her and the bonds of spiritual friendship that intensified with the passing of time," John Paul said. "I always felt supported by the daily gift of her prayers, especially in difficult moments of trial and suffering," he added in a message to Bishop Cleto.

It was last December that the nun stopped eating normally and grew progressively weak, remaining in bed for the following two months. The source said she was never hospitalized because she was "very well attended," including by a female doctor on the premises in Coimbra, Portugal, where Lucia spent decades in the Carmelite cloister.

Indications are that apparitions or visions of the Blessed Mother occurred to the nun on at least an occasional basis for many years after the famous 1917 appearances at Cova da Iria in Fatima -- both at Coimbra and during earlier stays in Spain.

Controversies over the famed Fatima secret and the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary continue, with those who believe the consecration was not carried out still arguing that it wasn't while the Vatican has noted that in a recent interview, Sister Lucia -- who repeatedly requested an end to the controversy -- said the 1984 consecration of the world, and implicitly Russia, to her Immaculate Heart was accepted by the Virgin Mary and led to a "period of peace" due to the collapse of Communism in the U.S.S.R., which at the time had thousands of nuclear missiles poised to strike targets across the world (and which, while at peace with the U.S. since the 1980s, remains a potential threat).

The fall of Communism, Sister Lucia said in the early 1990s, was a "triumph" of the Immaculate Heart.

But that hardly softened Lucia's prophetic view of the world and the future, which may be in as serious a state as during the initial apparitions. Sister Lucia once said that the world was in the throes of a "diabolical disorientation" and that the devil was "in the mood" for a final confrontation.

Lucia said her two cousins always saw the Blessed Mother as sad because of the offenses of mankind and the punishments that consequently threatened.

God would chastise the world, she fretted as mankind neared the 1960s, and it would be "terrible."

Whether that concern -- whether the specific chastisement she saw -- still holds true or was a worry attached to the rise of atomic weapons in the subsequent Sixties is fodder for interpretation. At least for a "period," the Russian threat has been dismantled.

But there are now other, equally pressing concerns, as well as the questions. Will that "period of peace" last? And what may now come?

As one author and Fatima expert Frere Michel de la Sainte pointed out, Lucia was "not talking about the 'end of the world' properly speaking, which is identified with the return of Christ in glory for the last judgment. This indicates only that we are entering the last great period of the world's history, without being able to judge how long it will last."

There are now secrets from sites such as Medjugorje in Bosnia-Hercegovina that are expected to unfold in the near future -- secrets that are more numerous than those from Fatima and by all indications at least as serious as the three Lucia related.

"Father," Sister Lucia once said in reported conversations with a Mexican named Augustine Fuentes, "the Most Holy Virgin did not tell me that we are in the last times of the world but she made me understand this for three reasons. The first reason is because she told me that the devil is in the mood for engaging in a decisive battle where one side will be victorious and the other side will suffer defeat. Hence from now on we must choose sides. Either we are for God or we are for the devil."

Lucia prophetically indicated that the intense part of the struggle would focus on consecrated souls. She made that prediction in 1957 -- as it turns out, the period during which the current sex-abuse crisis had its germination. Such was also forecast in a recent book the seer wrote.

"The devil does everything to overcome souls consecrated to God because in this way, the devil will succeed in leaving the souls of the faithful abandoned by their leaders, thereby the more easily will he seize them," she said on December 26, 1957, with chilling prescience.

"That which afflicts the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Heart of Jesus is the fall of religious and priestly souls," she told Fuentes. "The devil wishes to take possession of consecrated souls. He tries to corrupt them in order to lull to sleep the souls of laypeople and thereby lead them to final impenitence."

Her main mission, Sister Lucia said, was to indicate to everyone not so much earthly chastisement as the danger of losing one's soul for eternity. The devil does his best, she warned, to distract people from prayer and take away the love for it. "We shall be saved together," she said, "or we shall be damned together."

There were always indications that Lucia was especially concerned about the loss of faith in Europe -- although, as predicted at Fatima, her homeland of Portugal has remained faithful.

The devil, she lamented, had focused his assault against the Rosary, which she described as the prayer, after the holy liturgy itself, "most apt for preserving the faith in souls."

Devotion to the Immaculate Heart would be key, said the famous nun, and that consists of considering the Blessed Mother as the "seat of mercy, of goodness, and of pardon and as the certain door by which we are to enter Heaven."

"There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary," she reassured. "With the Holy Rosary, we will save ourselves. We will sanctify ourselves. We will console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls."

21 posted on 02/18/2005 1:31:12 PM PST by NYer ("The Eastern Churches are the Treasures of the Catholic Church" - Pope John XXIII)
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To: sinkspur
A "slam-dunk" beatification for the last of the Fatima visionaries Okay, but no fast-tracking the canonization process, which must be treated somberly.
29 posted on 02/18/2005 1:48:13 PM PST by thegreatbeast (Quid lucrum istic mihi est?)
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To: sinkspur
Sister Lucia has always presented a big problem for schismatics and those who have staked their salvation on the thesis that JPII is a lousy Pope, leading the Church to ruin and unworthy of obedience.

As these same groups also profess a loyalty to the message of Fatima, they are faced with the problem that Sr. Lucia, God's chosen messenger for this purpose, has always expressed her love for and loyalty to the Pope.

How to reconcile the fact that God's chosen instrument for spreading the Fatima message to which you profess to adhere, is also devoted to the man whom you despise and shun?

Simple. You invoke a conspiracy.

She doesn't really hold the Pope in affection. It's all a sham. She's being manipulated by evil men. She's really on our side. If we could only get to talk to her, she'd tell us how we are the good guys. She'd tell us what she really thinks of the Pope and how they've been telling lies all these years.

I would suggest that Sr. Lucia's humble devotion to the Papal office and ministry, over the course of almost a century, is a wonderful example for us all. Her humility and prayerfulness stand in great contrast to the rebellious, trash-talking "more-Catholic-than the Pope" crowd, who've taken it upon themselves to decide what Catholicism is.

33 posted on 02/18/2005 2:16:00 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: sinkspur

Who's Ima? And why is she fat?


42 posted on 02/18/2005 3:27:22 PM PST by Ecthelion
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To: sinkspur

What did Sister Lucia do prior to entering a convent in 1948?


130 posted on 02/19/2005 7:34:36 PM PST by Ciexyz (I use the term Blue Cities, not Blue States. PA is red except for Philly, Pgh & Erie)
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To: sinkspur
Some additional pictures of Sr. Lucia which prove she was not deaf and blind in her latter years.

Sister Lucia pictures

137 posted on 02/21/2005 5:45:10 PM PST by vox_freedom (Fear no evil)
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