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To: Dominick; CouncilofTrent; Viva Christo Rey; Canticle_of_Deborah; murphE; Land of the Irish

I referenced the article to open a discussion about the non-celibate lay diaconate. Naturally enough, persons like yourself had to go and push the "hot button topic" of Bayside. Ok....since you pushed the button (way too many times):

"Bishop" Mugavero is bound by Canon Law to thoroughly examine and investigate all alledged cases or apparitions, visions, locutions, miracles, within his diocese. This is to examine the situation and determine its legitimacy (if any), and to see if the matter is contrary to Church teaching.

Mugavero simply threw out a letter condemning the Bayside matter without ANY investigation, meetting with the seer (or having officials of the diocese interview her). This is clear and simple deriliction of duty. He DOES NOT have the option to be cavalier in abandoning his duty. He must follow accepted proceedure - this is his duty to his diocese, and to Rome.

His validity has everything to do with his actions, words, and pronouncments as a church office holder. His successors in office have also simply refused to properly investigate the matter.

I should be noted that both Bishop Daily and the present occupant, DeMArzio are/were also in material heresy/schism as they did and do knowingly tolerate it in their clergy and chancery offices. Neither of them has done anything to reform their clergy, the performance of the sacraments, or the teaching of Church doctrine.

Our Lady has been indicating that the present tribulations of the church were to come via the sins of the clergy. She has stated this at LaSallette, Fatima, Akita......and if one wishes to believe so, at Bayside too. She has been correct.

As to the usefullness of deacons, they do pitifully little which a lay person cannot do - or be trained to do. From personal observation in a number of of dioceses, the deacons are very poorly educated, and either do not know the faith - or teach doctrine which is not Catholic. All too many have studied in programs which teach that which one should properly call error.

"Leadership roles"????? There is no better leadership role for a young man to consider then to teach and lead the People of God as a priest.......by both his words, and personal example.


41 posted on 02/11/2005 7:15:09 PM PST by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux !)
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To: thor76; sinkspur
"Bishop" Mugavero

He was a licit Bishop. To say otherwise requires proof. Besides the point, and in this you are correct. OTOH, this doesn't validate Bayside. For the other comments, saying you "know" a Deacon is in a gay marriage? Please, slander is beneath a Christian. Produce the proof.

He must follow accepted proceedure - this is his duty to his diocese, and to Rome.

If I had published spurious apparitions, replete with Jesus in a bunny suit, would this require a full investigation? Even at that, the apparition isn't binding on none but the seer. Look at Conyers, how long did it take to see the "windows" to heaven were a function of a camera defect, and in addition, how long should it take to condemn a vision that validates a lie that these are windows to heaven and not a defect of optical physics.

From personal observation in a number of of dioceses, the deacons are very poorly educated, and either do not know the faith - or teach doctrine which is not Catholic. All too many have studied in programs which teach that which one should properly call error.

In my diocese they have the same coursework that undergraduate Priests do, at a Catholic college. Easy to make the charge, but it isn't possible to make it stick.

There is no better leadership role for a young man to consider then to teach and lead the People of God as a priest.......by both his words, and personal example.

Sure thing. Are we all called to be Priests? Why not all called to be Bishops? Are we all called to the same exalted vocation?

You should know that a Deacon should be the other person at a Mass to distribute our Lord, and by an extraordinary permission, Rome permits lay people to distribute His Body. Any person can Baptize a Baby, but this isn't the norm, but a Deacon is often called when a Priest isn't available, and this can happen without extraordinary circumstance. Your statement is half right, but incomplete. Belittling the education a Deacon pursues, often as a second career, and you may as well belittle the Priests you purport to exalt.

Lets also clear one other issue, a Deacon, like a Married Priest, may not remarry. A man called to Holy Orders, who is Married, and then Widowed often takes up his Cross and follows the Priesthood. In my experience, they are often very talented at tasks they are charged with, as they have experiences in business, lay life, and the Church to draw upon.
43 posted on 02/11/2005 7:34:33 PM PST by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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