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Why Did God Save Me? - R.C. Sproul
Monergism.com ^ | R.C. Sproul

Posted on 02/08/2005 5:46:04 AM PST by ksen

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To: P-Marlowe; RnMomof7
No RN, the Question (from the thread) is "Why did God save me?" The answer is "that God saved you because you put your trust and faith in Christ when you answered the summons of the gospel."

No PM, you've answered the question, "How does God save us?" not "Why does God save us?"

41 posted on 02/08/2005 9:04:31 AM PST by ksen ("He that knows nothing will believe anything." - Thomas Fuller)
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To: P-Marlowe
He referenced it as simplistic and only true "on the surface." IMO that is ridicule of those who would respond so "simplistically". He should have stated that it is true, period. But he only referenced it as true "on the surface."

He did not say it is only true on the surface. He said it is "certainly a legitimate answer" on the surface. I don't see how you make the jump from legitimizing it to ridiculing it. One of the main viewpoints he goes into is asking the questions that stem from that answer...namely why one puts their trust and faith in Christ.

IIMO, his intent was to show that those who hold firmly that position are not deep thinkers like he is.

IMO, your intent is to show that Sproul is inconsistent and belittling because he doesn't want to believe in conditional election like you do.

Give it up, Marlowe. Your character attack on Sproul is about as subtle as a lead pipe.

42 posted on 02/08/2005 9:10:08 AM PST by Frumanchu (I fear the sanctions of the Mediator far above the sanctions of the moderator...)
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To: P-Marlowe
It is clear from scripture that the only thing that could be is "CHRIST IN US."

Point of order: We are in Christ (Ro 8:1; 12:5; I Cor 1:2, 30; II Cor 1:21; 5:17; Gal 3:28; Eph 2:10; Col 1:28; Phm 23; I Pet 5:14).

43 posted on 02/08/2005 9:19:18 AM PST by ksen ("He that knows nothing will believe anything." - Thomas Fuller)
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To: ksen; P-Marlowe
You and I are saved not only because of God's concern for us but chiefly and ultimately for God's total determination to honor his obedient Son. We are the love gifts that the Father gives to the Son so that the Son, who lived a life of perfect obedience and died on the cross, will see the travail of his soul and be satisfied. That's the main reason I think God has saved you: to honor Jesus.

Ephesians 1:3-6 (New King James Version)
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

RC has made it perfectly clear, just as Paul does.

44 posted on 02/08/2005 9:21:47 AM PST by suzyjaruki (No pain, no gain - on the road to spiritual maturity)
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To: stuartcr
Saved from what?

Saved from not being in his presence. God does not abide with sin.

45 posted on 02/08/2005 9:29:58 AM PST by Freakazoid (God is effortless)
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To: Freakazoid

OK


46 posted on 02/08/2005 9:37:03 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: suzyjaruki
Thanks for the verse, suzyjaruki

5having predestined us to adoption as sons...

Adj. 1. predestined - established or prearranged unalterably.

Predestined is a powerful word. This is not God responding to our action. This is God causing our action.

47 posted on 02/08/2005 9:50:12 AM PST by Freakazoid (God is effortless)
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To: ksen
Point of order: We are in Christ

Point of order: We are conformed to the image of Christ.

48 posted on 02/08/2005 10:08:03 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe

Did you read the verses I appended?


49 posted on 02/08/2005 10:18:17 AM PST by ksen ("He that knows nothing will believe anything." - Thomas Fuller)
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To: ksen
Did you read the verses I appended?

Many times.

I'm outa here. Have a nice thread. :-)

50 posted on 02/08/2005 10:50:19 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe

I trust we will, Marlowe.


51 posted on 02/08/2005 10:59:48 AM PST by Frumanchu (I fear the sanctions of the Mediator far above the sanctions of the moderator...)
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To: RnMomof7; P-Marlowe
scripture...invite Christ in?

Joh 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Strong's Definitions of "Receive":

lambavnw a prolonged form of a primary verb, which is use only as an alternate in certain tenses Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Lambano 4:5,495 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech lam-ban'-o Verb Definition to take to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it to take up a thing to be carried to take upon one's self to take in order to carry away without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own to claim, procure, for one's self 1c to associate with one's self as companion, attendant of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self catch at, reach after, strive to obtain to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute) to take to admit, receive to receive what is offered not to refuse or reject to receive a person, give him access to one's self, 1d to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something to take, to choose, select to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get back

Merriam-Webster definition of "receive":

Main Entry: re·ceive Pronunciation: ri-'sEv Function: verb Inflected Form(s): re·ceived; re·ceiv·ing Etymology: Middle English, from Old North French receivre, from Latin recipere, from re- + capere to take -- more at HEAVE transitive senses 1 : to come into possession of : ACQUIRE 2 a : to act as a receptacle or container for b : to assimilate through the mind or senses 3 a : to permit to enter : ADMIT b : WELCOME, GREET c : to react to in a specified manner 4 : to accept as authoritative, true, or accurate : BELIEVE 5 a : to support the weight or pressure of : BEAR b : to take (a mark or impression) from the weight of something c : ACQUIRE, EXPERIENCE d : to suffer the hurt or injury of intransitive senses 1 : to be a recipient 2 : to be at home to visitors 3 : to convert incoming radio waves into perceptible signals 4 : to prepare to take possession of the ball from a kick in football

52 posted on 02/08/2005 11:00:50 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: xzins
Joh 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

vs. 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The two verses go together.

53 posted on 02/08/2005 11:10:28 AM PST by suzyjaruki (No pain, no gain - on the road to spiritual maturity)
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To: RnMomof7

Sorry, should have pinged you to #53.


54 posted on 02/08/2005 11:12:33 AM PST by suzyjaruki (No pain, no gain - on the road to spiritual maturity)
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To: suzyjaruki; Buggman

I realize that, but I was answering a specific question.

Look at the question in the post I responded to and then get back with me.

For what it's worth, the piece you've cited does not say: "Regenerated before they believed."

The sequence is (1) receive/believe and then (2) "reborn" by the power of God.


55 posted on 02/08/2005 11:15:07 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: suzyjaruki; P-Marlowe; Buggman
Doesn't it sort of make you wonder why the word order is as it is, and not:

But as many as He regenerated, to them gave He power to receive and believe....

But it doesn't read in that order, does it?

56 posted on 02/08/2005 11:17:58 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: ksen; P-Marlowe
Then what is the purpose of election?

Ah, the right question!

Election is not to salvation but to be conformed to Christ's image,

He also did predestinate to be conformed to His Son

Election is done for those already saved and it is an aspect of eternal security (so Calvin was on the right track)

Being confident in this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ(Phil 1:6)

57 posted on 02/08/2005 11:38:12 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: suzyjaruki
There is a problem not taking the verses in context today.

As you see with the John 1;12-13 in context it has a completely different reading

Look at this

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God

Jam 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Scripture NO WHERE says men are born again by their will

58 posted on 02/08/2005 11:39:22 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: xzins
Kinda like the wording in Acts 13:48? :)

Sorry, but the grammar and structure doesn't really support any assertion of those who received being subsequently born of God. In fact, quite the opposite.

59 posted on 02/08/2005 11:57:16 AM PST by Frumanchu (I fear the sanctions of the Mediator far above the sanctions of the moderator...)
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To: xzins; suzyjaruki; Buggman
"The sequence is (1) receive/believe and then (2) "reborn" by the power of God."

The sequence is actually (1) hearing (2) receiving/believe and then (3) "reborn" by the power of God. A subtle but important difference.

60 posted on 02/08/2005 11:57:18 AM PST by HarleyD
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