Posted on 02/08/2005 5:46:04 AM PST by ksen
Why Did God Save Me?
by R.C. Sproul
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Why did God save me?
I know of no more difficult a theological question to deal with than this one. I've been studying theology for many years, and I still can't come up with any exhaustive reason to explain why God would save me, or anyone else for that matter.
Some people give a very simple answer to this question. They say that God saved you because you put your trust and faith in Christ when you answered the summons of the gospel. On the surface that's certainly a legitimate answer because we are justified through faith and we are called to make that response.
But the deeper question is, Why did you respond to the gospel when you heard it, but someone else who heard it -- even the very same presentation at the same moment -- did not respond to it? What was there in you that caused you to respond positively while others are caused to reject it? I ask that about my own life. I could say the reason I responded was that I was more righteous than the other fellow. God forbid that I ever say that on the Judgment Day. I might think I'm more intelligent than somebody else, but I wouldn't want to say that either. Some might say that I recognized my need more than somebody else recognized his need, but even that recognition is a mixture of at least some measure of intelligence and some measure of humility, most of which would find its ultimate roots in the grace of God. I have to say with the ancient man, there but for the grace of God go I. I can't give any reason other than God's grace for why I am saved.
The Bible says many things about why God initiates salvation of people: He loves the world; he has a benevolent attitude toward his fallen creatures. We know that. But when we get down to the specifics, the Bible speaks of God's sovereign work of redemption and uses the terms predestination and election. These are biblical words. What is behind God's predestinating grace or his election? Some say that God foresees the choices of people. I think that takes the very heart out of the biblical teaching.
When the Scripture speaks about God's electing people, God speaks of electing people in Christ; our salvation is rooted and grounded in Jesus. What that makes me think is this: You and I are saved not only because of God's concern for us but chiefly and ultimately for God's total determination to honor his obedient Son. We are the love gifts that the Father gives to the Son so that the Son, who lived a life of perfect obedience and died on the cross, will see the travail of his soul and be satisfied. That's the main reason I think God has saved you: to honor Jesus.
When did God decide to give us eternal life?
"When" is a time word, and the Bible uses words like that. And when the Bible speaks about the time frame in which God's decision is made in respect to our eternal life, it generally puts the decision at the foundation of the world; that is, from all eternity God has chosen us to be among the redeemed.
I think Paul emphasizes that very clearly, particularly in the first chapter of his letter to the Ephesians. We were chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world to be conformed to Christ and to be brought into a state of redemption. This, of course, touches immediately on the very difficult and controversial doctrine of predestination. I will say in passing, as we skate over the surface of it, that every church has some doctrine of predestination. There are great variances among the churches in terms of how to understand predestination, but every church historically has had to hammer out and forge some doctrine of predestination because the Bible speaks of it. So there is a certain sense in which from all eternity God has chosen his people for salvation.
Now, obviously, that gets into some very complicated side issues. On what basis does God make a decision like that from all eternity? Did God make a decision from all eternity that certain people would be damned? Does he destine people for hell? Does he destine people to fall? I think the church has shrunk from that concept and rightly so. I think God knew from all eternity that man would fall, that man would rebel against him, and he also knew that he was going to make a provision to redeem people from all eternity. God's knowledge is as ancient and his omniscience is as eternal as he is. Everything that God knows, he knows from eternity. We need to keep this idea in front of us.
I would say that God's decision to choose us was made prior to the fall of mankind but in light of the Fall. Let me say it again. He made the decision before the Fall, with the knowledge that the Fall will come and with the knowledge of its consequences. In other words, God couldn't possibly make it his choice to save persons who were in no need of salvation. Only sinners are in need of salvation, so God must have considered us as being sinners and fallen as we were considered in the divine mind for salvation. Ultimately, the decision to save us was made in eternity, according to God's divine knowledge of us.
No PM, you've answered the question, "How does God save us?" not "Why does God save us?"
He did not say it is only true on the surface. He said it is "certainly a legitimate answer" on the surface. I don't see how you make the jump from legitimizing it to ridiculing it. One of the main viewpoints he goes into is asking the questions that stem from that answer...namely why one puts their trust and faith in Christ.
IIMO, his intent was to show that those who hold firmly that position are not deep thinkers like he is.
IMO, your intent is to show that Sproul is inconsistent and belittling because he doesn't want to believe in conditional election like you do.
Give it up, Marlowe. Your character attack on Sproul is about as subtle as a lead pipe.
Point of order: We are in Christ (Ro 8:1; 12:5; I Cor 1:2, 30; II Cor 1:21; 5:17; Gal 3:28; Eph 2:10; Col 1:28; Phm 23; I Pet 5:14).
Ephesians 1:3-6 (New King James Version)
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
RC has made it perfectly clear, just as Paul does.
Saved from not being in his presence. God does not abide with sin.
OK
5having predestined us to adoption as sons...
Adj. 1. predestined - established or prearranged unalterably.
Predestined is a powerful word. This is not God responding to our action. This is God causing our action.
Point of order: We are conformed to the image of Christ.
Did you read the verses I appended?
Many times.
I'm outa here. Have a nice thread. :-)
I trust we will, Marlowe.
Joh 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Strong's Definitions of "Receive":
lambavnw a prolonged form of a primary verb, which is use only as an alternate in certain tenses Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Lambano 4:5,495 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech lam-ban'-o Verb Definition to take to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it to take up a thing to be carried to take upon one's self to take in order to carry away without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own to claim, procure, for one's self 1c to associate with one's self as companion, attendant of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self catch at, reach after, strive to obtain to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute) to take to admit, receive to receive what is offered not to refuse or reject to receive a person, give him access to one's self, 1d to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something to take, to choose, select to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get back
Merriam-Webster definition of "receive":
Main Entry: re·ceive Pronunciation: ri-'sEv Function: verb Inflected Form(s): re·ceived; re·ceiv·ing Etymology: Middle English, from Old North French receivre, from Latin recipere, from re- + capere to take -- more at HEAVE transitive senses 1 : to come into possession of : ACQUIRE 2 a : to act as a receptacle or container for b : to assimilate through the mind or senses 3 a : to permit to enter : ADMIT b : WELCOME, GREET c : to react to in a specified manner 4 : to accept as authoritative, true, or accurate : BELIEVE 5 a : to support the weight or pressure of : BEAR b : to take (a mark or impression) from the weight of something c : ACQUIRE, EXPERIENCE d : to suffer the hurt or injury of intransitive senses 1 : to be a recipient 2 : to be at home to visitors 3 : to convert incoming radio waves into perceptible signals 4 : to prepare to take possession of the ball from a kick in football
vs. 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The two verses go together.
Sorry, should have pinged you to #53.
I realize that, but I was answering a specific question.
Look at the question in the post I responded to and then get back with me.
For what it's worth, the piece you've cited does not say: "Regenerated before they believed."
The sequence is (1) receive/believe and then (2) "reborn" by the power of God.
But as many as He regenerated, to them gave He power to receive and believe....
But it doesn't read in that order, does it?
Ah, the right question!
Election is not to salvation but to be conformed to Christ's image,
He also did predestinate to be conformed to His Son
Election is done for those already saved and it is an aspect of eternal security (so Calvin was on the right track)
Being confident in this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ(Phil 1:6)
As you see with the John 1;12-13 in context it has a completely different reading
Look at this
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God
Jam 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Scripture NO WHERE says men are born again by their will
Sorry, but the grammar and structure doesn't really support any assertion of those who received being subsequently born of God. In fact, quite the opposite.
The sequence is actually (1) hearing (2) receiving/believe and then (3) "reborn" by the power of God. A subtle but important difference.
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