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To: Malachias111
To be "traditional," must one consider an Ecumenical Council the "Council from Hell?"

This sort of crackpot garbage gives "trads" a bad reputation

3 posted on 02/07/2005 3:16:15 AM PST by bornacatholic (Liberal traditionalists; the Neo-Protestants of our times)
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To: bornacatholic; Land of the Irish; ultima ratio; thor76

Okay, instead of your typical name-calling, why don't you present the fruits of Vatican II? Or better yet, why did the Mass have to change? Why did these things need to happen? You have such a good time throwing crap at other people, why don't you sit down and explain to all of the "trads" why the New Mass needed to be promulgated. Explain yourself now.


7 posted on 02/07/2005 7:48:44 AM PST by CouncilofTrent (Quo Primum...)
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To: bornacatholic; CouncilofTrent
And once again Fr. Echert of EWTN, someone I would think you would listen to, disagrees with you.

"Since cause and effect cannot be seen with the naked eye, and there remains, therefore, conjecture on the matter of cause, I believe it legitimate for Catholics to be able to debate the nature of the cause(s), which have produced the effects in the Church of the present time--many of which are documented. If all aspects of a council are precluded from any such discussion, on the assumption that all aspects of all councils are somehow sacrosanct and divinely inspired, then we do a disservice to the pursuit of truth and a remedy, in my opinion. There are ambiguities and omissions in, and false translations of, documents of the recent council which have been used and misused by certain elements within the Church, with devastating results. Similarly, things never envisioned or commented upon by the council have been carried out, in the name of the council—the radical changes to the Sacred Liturgy, for instance. This has now gone on for four decades; one wonders if this will continue for centuries. It will, if we label those who raise the question as unfaithful, or those who object as dissenters." Father Echert

EWTN experts forum

8 posted on 02/07/2005 8:01:05 AM PST by murphE ("I ain't no physicist, but I know what matters." - Popeye)
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