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To: gbcdoj; Land of the Irish; Canticle_of_Deborah; Gerard.P
No, I claim that the majority of the whole Church hierarchy is in apostasy. It doesn't matter what they say, if they don't ACT on what they say, they don't really BELIEVE it. No matter how grievous the error, or how dangerous the heresy nobody ever gets disciplined or corrected. The only one to be disciplined by the Holy Father are the SSPX for crying out loud.

No matter how many times this is pointed out to you, you pull out a quote and stick your head in the sand. The thing that makes me most angry is that it is those who consider themselves the conservative Catholics that do this. I don't give a hoot about the out right heretics.

You defend the modernists on this forum against the Traditional Catholics, even when I know, that if you have any faith at all you can't really agree with them. As long as you support this you are giving the hierarchy power to destroy the Church structure right before your very eyes. Sometimes I feel like shaking you and saying WAKE UP!

I'm not saying this because I want to pick a fight, if I thought you were a lost cause I wouldn't bother, but I think deep down you know things are worse than you let on.

43 posted on 02/03/2005 8:17:54 PM PST by murphE ("I ain't no physicist, but I know what matters." - Popeye)
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To: murphE
No matter how grievous the error, or how dangerous the heresy nobody ever gets disciplined or corrected. The only one to be disciplined by the Holy Father are the SSPX for crying out loud.

Ever heard of Leonardo Boff? Jacques Dupuis? Tissa Balasuriya? Hans Kung? We could go on ... they've all been "disciplined or corrected".

You are greatly exaggerating. Admittedly, it's true that JP II hasn't rushed around firing off excommunications.

http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/globalpers/gp070203.htm

Then in 1984, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith condemned liberation theology in an extraordinarily severe document. This theology was treated as if it were a synthesis of all heresies. In 1985, the pope wrote a letter to appease the Brazilian episcopate, but liberation theologians were more or less persecuted; they were excluded from the large majority of dioceses and from all the seminaries and clerical formation centers.

The basic Christian communities were discredited, treated with suspicion and finally, suppressed in many dioceses. The new way of reading the Bible was condemned and since then has been restricted to a few dioceses. The pope's victory is almost complete. What he persecuted exists now clandestinely or in a few independent dioceses.

... In the first place, the Vatican curia strived to devaluate the Latin American bishops' conference (CELAM) that had promoted the assemblies of Medellin in 1968 and of Puebla in 1979. The curia took controlled the election of the directory of the conference in 1972. This did not cause a disruption at the assembly at Puebla, but it did make the assembly at Santo Domingo in 1992 insignificant.

The curia's best inquisitor, Cardinal Jorge Medina Estevez, ruled the conference with an iron hand. After this, little has been heard from CELAM. It still exists formally, but it has become totally irrelevant. It takes no more initiatives and simply applies the decrees that come from Rome. CELAM as an institution is dead.

... Nowadays, the Latin American bishops are almost completely different from what they were 24 years ago. Pope John Paul has systematically chosen bishops who are against this spirit that permeated Latin America in the 1960s and 1970s. The bishops appointed under this pope have weaker personalities and are completely submissive to the authority of the Holy See. They lack initiative and have no social commitment or option for the poor. Furthermore, the nunciatures in each country keep close watch over the clergy and does not permit any priest with personality or clearly defined social positions on to the list of candidates to the episcopate.

... Bishops who followed the inspiration of Medellin have almost always been replaced with bishops who were contrary to this spirit. Their mission was to destroy everything that their predecessors had done. Some of these cases were scandalous. For example, in Brazil, we saw this happen with the successor of Archbishop Helder Câmara in Recife, and in São Paulo, Goiânia and Fortaleza.

Outside of Brazil similar situations transpired in San Salvador, Lima, and Santiago. We saw it with the succession of Bishop Samuel Ruiz in San Cristobal de las Casas, Mexico. These are some of the worst cases, but the same thing occurred in hundreds of less known and less important dioceses. One can only imagined how many human and pastoral dramas were the result of these destructive successions.

Now that sounds a bit different from the idea that Rome is just sitting around doing nothing, doesn't it?

46 posted on 02/03/2005 8:48:14 PM PST by gbcdoj ("The Pope orders, the cardinals do not obey, and the people do as they please" - Benedict XIV)
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