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To: donbosco74
Then again, is there anything "nice" to say about tampering with the Rosary?

I like the "O my Jesus" prayer from Fatima. That's "tampering", I suppose, although it's heavenly tampering ;)

As for the Luminous Mysteries, the jury's still out, I guess... The normal mysteries were fine, if you ask me. But I don't run the Church.

16 posted on 01/31/2005 7:01:30 PM PST by gbcdoj ("The Pope orders, the cardinals do not obey, and the people do as they please" - Benedict XIV)
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To: gbcdoj

I can appreciate your position on this. I don't run the Church, either. But then again, anyone who does so, while ignoring history and tradition has to be suspect, according to history and tradition. Just as the Mass was developed organically over the centuries, so too the Rosary was. Comparing the adding of these new mysteries to the abrupt and violent changes to the Mass in 1969 reveals conspicuous similarities. Or, take the wholesale remodeling of churches and the calendar: the principal aim seems to be a desire to introduce confusion, distraction and discord. Now, what do we have? When a group gathers to pray the Rosary, if some of them want to add the Luminous Mysteries --

The Baptism in the Jordan
The Marriage Feast at Cana
The Proclamation of the Kingdom
The Transfiguration
The Institution of the Eucharist

-- often times others do not, resulting in disagreement and confusion. There has been talk of Rosary groups being broken up over this question. The greatest saints have said that the original 15 mysteries present such a wealth of meditation that nobody has time in their life to exhaust the depth thereof; therefore, adding these 5 more would at least sometimes distract from the contemplation of the original 15. Some may disagree. But it certainly introduces a separation from the practice of a very well established tradition.

Many such attacks have come to the Rosary over the centuries, but this is the first time such a change was introduced from the chair of Peter. All his predecessors ever did was to confirm the popular practice with indulgences and praise, or to ask for a few additional prayers for the Pope. The Rosary with 15 decades carries numerous indulgences in various forms. How many indulgences are given for the 20-mystery version?


21 posted on 02/05/2005 11:46:08 AM PST by donbosco74
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To: gbcdoj

Clarification: what I mean is, I am not able to find anything specifically giving the new Luminous Mysteries any indulgence. While the apostolic letter, Rosarium Virginis Mariae, mentions the word "indulgence" one time, it does not mention any specific indulgence tied to the Rosary including the new mysteries. So, like with so many novelties recently introduced, confusion sets in. For example, if one prays the new version, with 20 mysteries, do the same indulgences apply as if only the traditional 15 were prayed? Where is that question answered? Or, do some (or all?) indulgences now apply only if one has no reservation against the new 5? A priest might claim to have the answer, but I am asking for a Papal pronouncement to which I can refer, because I can't find one.

Some indulgences were for praying any set of 5 ("one third, continuously") of the first 15 decades: do these now apply to the new 5? (The old form would therefore need to be remodeled to say "one fourth, continuously" but it has not been.) Nobody has said so, as far as I can tell. The point is, indulgences have very specific rules which have been followed for good reasons, not the least of which is to avoid confusion of the faithful. Is that a note of this latest move, or not?


22 posted on 02/05/2005 3:50:22 PM PST by donbosco74 ("Men and devils make war on me in this great city." (Paris) --St. Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort)
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