Why Tradition? (Part I of II)

This is Life!: Revolutions Around the Cruciform Axis ^ | 1/28/2005 | Clifton

[sionnsar]

Comments?

[Kolokotronis]

This piece is really quite wonderful. On these various threads many of us, myself among the first, tend to talk of the councils, the canons, the Fathers without explaining that the purpose of all those sources of authority have in fact only one purpose, theosis and to ascend the Ladder of Divine Ascent, to advance in theosis, brings us at a point to an understanding and acceptance and "internalization" of the Joy which is the Truth of Orthodoxy and the experience of the ineffable love of the Ineffable God. This is the foundation and structure of an Orthodox phronema. This author really "gets it" and presents his position without an unfavorable contrast to others as we often see among ourselves.

I am pinging some of our Roman brethren as well as Orthodox on this one.

Thanks for this!

[NYer]

This piece is really quite wonderful.

Yes, especially the commentary on kissing an icon that has leaned against the altar which held the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Thank you, Sionnsar, for posting this thread.

[sitetest]

"one purpose, theosis"

I like how you always keep your eye on the ball. ;-)

[Kolokotronis]

"I like how you always keep your eye on the ball. ;-)"

I have a spiritual father who keeps shoving it in my eye if I look away! :)

[Gingersnap]

"Your darksome reality is not ours."

This really sums it up and explains why we have so much trouble talking to each other.

Tradition is like drinking from a sweet spring. Modernism is like ordering a soda in a drive-through. I guess it would keep you from dying of dehydration but at the price of decayed teeth and a bloated waistline.

I have always found it ironic that progressive Anglicans still try to say that their faith rests on scripture, tradition and reason. They've thrown away 2 out of 3 and working hard to dismantle that last leg.

[Kolokotronis]

Ping

[Kolokotronis]

The lady in your tagline understood!

[AlbionGirl]

Thanks so much for the ping, and for the pangs of sorrow, and feelings of joy that accompanied my reading this.

First, what we do not mean by Holy Tradition. We do not mean those things that are not universal in shape and content to the entire apostolic Church. We also do not mean by Holy Tradition a set of legal codes or rules that must be unquestioningly obeyed at all times. We do not mean a love of the past merely for the past's sake. We do not mean a fortress into which we can retreat from the social realities we find troubling and distasteful. And we certainly do not mean by Holy Tradition a state of power in which we get to control the behaviors of other people. All of this is most emphatically not what we are about.

There is so much beauty in this piece that I don't want to linger very long on anything negative, but what this gentleman says Holy Tradtion is not, should be taken to heart.

We keep the only form of marriage the Church has ever known, that of one man and one woman for life and for the begetting of children, because in creating life and sustaining it, in our mortal unions themselves in a mytery too great to fathom we somehow touch Life.

I don't know when I've ever seen a more profound and beautiful explanation of the Holy magnitude of marriage and procreation.

What is oppression beside the despair one feels as the tyranny of our passions burden us with the sins we willingly commit at their urging?

I am so blessed that the good Lord lengthened my days, so I could find my way back. 'Blessed be God, and his Angels and his Saints.'

[Kolokotronis]

Ping. You might find this interesting.

[CouncilofTrent]

Thanks

[Kolokotronis]

"Blessed be God, and his Angels and his Saints."

Blessed be His Holy Name! (I remember :) )

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

What an inspired piece of writing. I had to read it three times to digest the spiritual depth.

But in that we are all referring to that living experience which has been transmitted from the Apostles down to our own day

This sentence immediately stood out for me. Divine Liturgies are alive. I have not spent much time in Orthodox churches, but in older Roman churches there is a palpable sanctity in the air. I would say it is due literally to God's presence and the graces which infuse the church during the Old Mass.

Tradition is a path of practice. My spiritual director says the path to sanctity is simple. Human beings make it complicated through our mental obstacles and personal weaknesses. No one needs to be a great scholar. Some of the greatest Roman saints were uneducated. The challenge is not in the talking but in the doing.

IMO, Tradition is the Church which has survived and been passed down for centuries despite efforts to stamp it out.

[Kolokotronis]

"Divine Liturgies are alive. I have not spent much time in Orthodox churches, but in older Roman churches there is a palpable sanctity in the air. I would say it is due literally to God's presence and the graces which infuse the church during the Old Mass."

One thing which stands out starkly to me when I have the occasion to attend a NO Mass is the lack of a sense of "sacred space". As a Catholic school kid I was very familiar with the Tridentine Mass, so what I see today seems very odd and not really Roman Catholic to me. Maybe you should spend more time at Divine Liturgies, C of D!

"My spiritual director says the path to sanctity is simple." To say what needs to be done is indeed simple, pray unceasingly. The end is to die to the self so that one's whole being is focused on God. Doing it is another matter entirely. But you are right that many of us, especially those of us who are educated, over think and over complicate matters of the Faith. We have the Liturgy and other devotions of the Church, the sacraments, our icons and the writings and examples of the Fathers, especially the Desert Fathers to guide us. We don't need to know why or how, just believe the Truth and live it. In Orthodoxy there is a line of belief which says that at the Judgment, we won't be judged by what we have done or not done, but rather on how close we have become to being like God. I've said this many times on FR, but it bears repeating. My Greek great grandmother couldn't spell canon and probably didn't even know what they are, but her best friend was the Holy Mother of God.

[Claud]

One thing which stands out starkly to me when I have the occasion to attend a NO Mass is the lack of a sense of "sacred space". As a Catholic school kid I was very familiar with the Tridentine Mass, so what I see today seems very odd and not really Roman Catholic to me.

And the frightening thing is that people born in the NO era like myself, have hardly any idea what they are missing. But when we learn...either through exposure to the Divine Liturgy, or the Traditional Mass....wow.

The reaction becomes...you taught us this...when we had THAT sitting unused in the closet!!??

[Kolokotronis]

" The reaction becomes...you taught us this...when we had THAT sitting unused in the closet!!??"

I guess I'd be a bit upset myself.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Maybe you should spend more time at Divine Liturgies, C of D!

After our discussion last night I did some internet searching. Everything made sense. I shared the information with my mother this morning who wasn't surprised at all. She said when she was a little girl in southern Italy, she attended Mass in a tiny chapel called "Santa Maria del Graeco" -- St. Mary of Greece. It was built either in the 1100s or 1400s. She couldn't recall. All the church buildings are Greek in design. I think I have ancestors who were Greek Orthodox, lol ;-)